Welcome to another edition of Payout Perspective! This week we’ll be taking a look at the Strikeforce Heavyweight Grand Prix first event televised on Showtime and headlined by Fedor Emelianenko, as he made his long awaited return to the cage against Brazilian giant Antonio “Bigfoot” Silva.
The event took place at the IZOD Center in East Rutherford, New Jersey and featured 5 Heavyweight fights: Fedor Emelianenko vs. Antonio “Bigfoot” Silva, Andrei Arlovski vs. Sergei Kharitonov, Shane Del Rosario vs. Lavar Johnson, and Chad Griggs vs. Gian Villante, and Valentijn Overeem vs. Ray Sefo. The prelims were also televised by HDNet and were headlined by John Cholish vs Marc Stevens and Igor Gracie vs John Salgado.
Fighter Disclosed Payouts
Fighter payouts were not disclosed for the event.
Attendance and Gate
MMAJunkie reports that Strikeforce: Fedor vs Silva achieved an attendance of 11,287. The number stands as the second most attended event for Strikeforce in all of 2010 and so far in 2011, just trailing behind the Fedor vs Werdum event held at the HP Pavilion in San Jose, which drew 11,757 spectators. MMAPayout has learned that the gate for the event broke the $1 million dollar mark, last achieved by the Fedor vs Werdum event at the HP Pavilion. This is a nice trend being set by Strikeforce but it also shows how much of a draw Fedor is, having the last two million dollar gates and high attendance, and as you will read below, now owning the ratings record previously held by Gina Carano vs Cyborg Santos.
– 11,757 spectators, “Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Werdum” (June, 2010)
– 11,287 spectators, “Strikeforce: Fedor vs Silva” (February, 2011)
– 9,059 spectators, “Strikeforce: Diaz vs Cyborg” (January, 2011)
– 8,635 spectators, “Strikeforce: Houston” (August, 2010)
– 8,196 spectators, “Strikeforce: Nashville (April, 2010)
– 8,136 spectators, “Strikeforce St. Louis: Heavy Artillery” (May, 2010)
– 7,559 spectators, “Strikeforce: Diaz vs Noons II (October, 2010)
– 7,146 spectators, “Strikeforce: Henderson vs Babalu II (December, 2010)
– 7,010 spectators, “Strikeforce: Miami” (January, 2010)
– 5,259 spectators, “Strikeforce: Los Angeles” (June, 2010)
Ratings
MMAJunkie reports that Strikeforce: Fedor vs Silva averaged 741,000 viewers (2.13 rating) and peaked at 1.1 million viewers (3.2 rating) for the main event between Fedor and “Bigfoot” Silva on Showtime this past Saturday night . The average and peak numbers are the highest for any MMA event ever broadcasted on Showtime, topping the previous record held by Gina Carano vs Cris Cyborg, which averaged 576,000 viewers (2.2 rating, note that this rating is only higher because Showtime had less subscribers 18 months ago) and peaked at 856,000 (2.91). Another eye popping stat is that this event drew a higher rating than any MMA broadcast on television since December 5, 2009, when Kimbo Slice fought on Spike against Houston Alexander, and the show drew a 2.38 rating (H/T F4Wonline). Strikeforce: Fedor vs Silva also broke records with the key demographics, achieving a 2.35 rating in Males 18-34 and a 1.91 rating in Males 35-49, which is skewed more to the younger viewers, which is not typical for Showtime since a big portion of their subscriber base are older. The main event between Fedor vs Silva did a 3.55 rating in Males 18-34 and 2.83 in Males 35-49. Kimbo Slice vs Roy Nelson on Spike TV hold the all time TV ratings record, achieving a 4.26 rating and 6.1 million viewers.
MMAPayout has learned that both Strikeforce and Showtime are “extremely happy” with the numbers as it builds momentum for the rest of the Strikeforce Heavyweight Grand Prix tournament, the next taking place on April 9th on Showtime featuring Alistair Overeem vs Fabricio Werdum and Josh Barnett vs Brett Rogers.
NOTE: A key number to observe here is the peak number, which means more for Showtime because of the correlation between how many current and new subscribers are watching Strikeforce, which differs from the UFC, WEC, Bellator, and other promotions with TV deals (with non-subscription channels) which are ad and rating dependent.
– 741,000 viewers (1.1 million peak), “Strikeforce: Fedor vs Silva” (February, 2011)
– 576,000 viewers (856,000 peak), “Strikeforce: Carano vs Cyborg” (August, 2009)
– 561,000 viewers (853,000 peak), “Strikeforce: Diaz vs Cyborg” (January, 2011)
– 517,000 viewers (peak not available), “Strikeforce: Miami” (January, 2010)
– 412,000 viewers (700,000 peak), “Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Werdum” (June, 2010)
– 367,000 viewers (470,000 peak), “Strikeforce: Houston” (August, 2010)
– 350,000 viewers (509,000 peak), “Strikeforce: Diaz vs Noons II (October, 2010)
– 341,000 viewers (465,000 peak), “Strikeforce: Henderson vs Babalu II (December, 2010)
– 308,000 viewers (448,000 peak), “Strikeforce St. Louis: Heavy Artillery” (May, 2010)
– 164,000 viewers (197,000 peak), “Strikeforce: Los Angeles” (June, 2010) [Special Wednesday Show]
Storylines Coming Out of Event
Strikeforce Gets Huge Buzz From Event, Smashes TV Records, and Provides Great First Round in the Heavyweight Grand Prix
– Aside from the superb rating numbers, Strikeforce has to be thrilled how the event turned out for them this past weekend. This is now their third big show in a row (Strikeforce: Henderson vs Babalu II & Strikeforce: Diaz vs Cyborg) which produced some really memorable fights and finishes . Strikeforce is riding the momentum in 2011, holding true to the perception that they put on quality and exciting fights for the fans. Strikeforce and Showtime were thrilled with the card and the numbers it generated, and used the 1.1 million plus viewers who tuned in to effectively prop up and plug the next leg of the Heavyweight Grand Prix, which both Showtime and Strikeforce are fully supporting throughout 2011. The HW GP Opening Ceremony and the production upgrades was great to see, and hopefully it’s something that we see on a more consistent basis and will continue to improve. They are hopeful that Lenne Hardt, the original announcer from PRIDE Fighting Championship can also work some of the events in the future.
– After the event had finished, all anyone could talk about was Fedor’s shocking loss. This event lacked the big names that typically get the mainstream media’s attention, but Fedor surrounded by the intrigue of the HW Grand Prix did more than enough to lure the hardcore and the casual fans. In fact, Strikeforce Fedor vs Silva ranked in the top 10 both in Google Trends and Twitter (in multiple countries as well as worldwide). Fedor’s loss caused a heated debate between the MMA media and MMA fans, where Fedor fans were quick to defend their fighter against those who came out after the event was over and claimed that Fedor is overrated. Among those who caused controversy, UFC’s Dana White – who argued with Fedor fans throughout the night, and other famous sport personalities like Jim Rome, who both made negative statements towards Fedor. All it did was cause Fedor fans, fighters, and MMA media personnel to challenge their views. Among the notables, MMA fighters BJ Penn, Shane Carwin, Matt Mitrione, Phil Baroni, and MMA pioneer Pat Miletich were quick to defend Fedor and his status as one of he greatest champions our sport has ever had. Needless to say, the event and Fedor’s loss made this event one of those events you will remember for a very long time.
– HDNet aired the Strikeforce 2/12 New Jersey event undercard live. The prelims announcers for the bouts were Mike Schiavello and Bas Rutten, who received a ton of compliments from MMA fans and were very please with HDNet’s presentation. John Cholish and Igor Gracie made the most out of their match-ups, both looking impressive and Cholish looking like he may be ready to be featured on future Challenger events defeating his opponent by an impressive knee bar.
– Fedor was the number 1 searched item on Google for hours and Strikeforce and “Strikeforce Heavy Weight Tournament” was near the top as well. It was near the top on Twitter, Google, and many other websites. The event was so popular in Brazil, that the top 3 trends there were “Strikeforce”, “Fedor”, and “Pezao” the entire evening on until the next day. Even the station that televised the event in Brazil and Latin America, “HBO Plus” was a top 10 trend.
– Strikeforce and CEO Scott Coker featured on Bloomberg – Scott Coker, chief executive officer of Strikeforce, talks about the mixed martial arts promoter’s revenue and profitability outlook. Coker speaks with Michele Steele on Bloomberg Television’s “InsideTrack.”
– HW fighters made it no secret they were pumped to see the HW Grand Prix: Shane Carwin: I am looking forward to the HWT Grand Prix tonight. Go Fedor! Roy Nelson: Getting ready to watch the Strikeforce Hwy tournament.
– After the event concluded, it was front-paged and made the lead-story on ESPN, now the second event in a row to do so, which is a first for Strikeforce. Showtime: Check out the main page of ESPN.com! This is becoming a regular thing for @Strikeforce… http://yfrog.com/gyhgyfrj
– Showtime Posts Strikeforce Fan Video, Making Strives At Connecting with Fans.
– MMAPayout reader, Diego, was on scene for the event and shared his thoughts and observations here on MMAPayout:
11k+ in attendance and Fedor was hugely popular. Of big events I’ve only been to UFC 111 and this one, but Fedor got a huge pop when he was introduced at the beginning and the place went ballistic when he got in the cage. He got a louder reaction, by far, than any other fighter (out of the two cards I’ve seen live).
…
A lot of Fedor shirts were being worn, and a lot of Russian being spoken. (It was hilarious that when Silva was in half-guard and looking to pass about 20 Russian guys behind me were chanting “stand them up”.)… it seemed like half of Brighton beach showed up to watch him. I speak enough barroom Russian to know the ringside doctor who stopped the fight should avoid any Russian restaurants for the near future.
– One of the things that I have noticed as of late is the great job Strikeforce and Showtime are doing to convey a story within the fights. Cris Cyborg did so a few weeks ago as she sat at cage-side watching her husband battle Nick Diaz for the belt. This time around, Fedor vs Silva produced such a great fight and story, that pro wrestling personalities analyzed the fight and are researching MMA events. Due to Bobby Lashley, Dave Batista, and big Pro Wrestling fan Mauro Ranallo’s association with Strikeforce, it has intrigued a new wave of Pro Wrestling fans who are crossing-over to MMA. This was the case with Missy Hyatt as she watched Strikeforce & compared it to pro wrestling, in a wonderful must-read article on F4WOnline (subscription required) that details the emotional investments fans have while watching MMA:
Missy Hyatt: The last time I watched Strike Force was when Nick Diaz fought Evangelista Cyborg. I told a fellow old school wrestler to watch the fight for the wrestling psychology. You had a heel champion in Diaz that overlooked his underdog challenger. The underdog in Cyborg gave the champion a big beating only to lose cleanly by the champion. The end result was the baby face challenger raised his stock by coming very close to beating the champion. The heel champion got over by cleanly beating his opponent & flipped somebody off on camera to still gain the ire of the crowd…
The Fedor Emalienko VS. Antonio Silva fight told an amazing story from a wrestling stand point. Fedor was beyond over in the building based on his won-loss record & mystique. John Cena had nothing on Fedor in being a babyface last night in New Jersey. Antonio Silva came across almost like Andre The Giant as a heel in the manor that the fight played out. You had the baby face go toe to toe with his larger foe. Silva had the baby face reeling at times. Fedor would deliver flurries that had the crowd on their feet.
The idea that Fedor vs Siva could be compared to Hulk Hogan vs Andre The Giant is an interesting take that Hyatt has here. You can really see where the pro wrestling mind differs from an MMA fans perspective, though ultimately, both fan bases yearn for the same thing. Learning how to apply and better convey storylines to the fights definitely sells, though sometimes boxing and the UFC have had a tendency to manufacture them, only to see each guy hugging each other at the end of the fight and telling each other that they didn’t mean what they said and they were only trying to sell the fight.
Missy Hyatt: The second round had Antonio Silva gain the advantage & came close to choking out Fedor on several occasions. People were literally on their feet & going nuts for Fedor barely escaping every submission attempt. The crowd went nuts when Fedor reversed a knee bar in to an ankle lock. The best description I could think of would be a Dusty Rhodes or Hulk Hogan comeback in their prime. Silva came across as such a monster heel by waving his finger that the ankle lock was not hurting him to a round of boos at the end of the second round… People were hoping that Fedor would come out in the third round to finally make his comeback in beating Silva. When the doctors stopped the fight for Fedor’s swollen eye, the crowd was angry for a few seconds. When they saw the swollen eye & face of Fedor, they showed genuine empathy.
…
When looking at this fight thru a wrestling perspective. I saw the biggest baby face sell for his opponent, have flurries of comebacks, come close to defeat, & then lose by a referee stoppage. The end result was Silva gained the respect of the crowd for beating Fedor cleanly. Fedor became even more over with fans by hoping that his hint at retirement will not happen until he avenges his loss… Everybody was leaving the building in a state of shock that Fedor lost two in a row. All they kept talking about was the possibility of Fedor coming back in to the tournament in an alternate spot. I was amazed on why wrestling can’t create a baby face that was as over as Fedor. I also realized that nobody in wrestling can understand the concept in which a baby face can lose & still get over. Plus Strike Force elevated the stock of Antonio Silva as a possible drawing card in the future. The chase for a rematch can possibly bring in even more interest & money for the future. There is even money on the table for a Fedor comeback.
…
I’m a wrestling purist, but there were many lessons that people in creative could learn from MMA. Wins & losses do elevate stars. The chase for the title is a theme that never gets old in real sports, movies, & in wrestling.
Post-Event Notes
– Strikeforce announces and advertises the March 5th event in Columbus, Ohio. It will be a part of the Arnold Classic and will be headlined by Strikeforce LHW Champion “Feijao” Cavalcante as he takes on MMA legend Dan Henderson. The co-main event will be Strikeforce 135 lbs champion Marloes Coenen, as she takes on title challengers Miesha Tate. Time Kennedy vs Luke Rockhold and Jorge Masvidal vs Billy Evangelista will also be on the televised portion of the event. The rest of the cast and poster can be found here.
– MMAJunkie: Fedor Emelianenko wanted Strikeforce bout to continue, hints at future fights
– Josh Gross (ESPN): Strikeforce’s Gina Carano to end hiatus – Coker told ESPN.com the fight against a to-be-determined opponent would take place in San Jose, Calif., likely on a card [late June] that features a welterweight championship bout between Nick Diaz and Paul Daley.
– Loretta Hunt (LA Times): Strikeforce still gunning for April event in Japan – Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker has given himself one more week to secure a venue in Japan for a planned April event…Should the event be held stateside, Coker said he is considering Georgia, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Texas, states whose athletic commissions have apparently agreed to license Josh Barnett…
– M-1 Global and Showtime: TV Deal to Broadcast the M-1 Challenge this year is in place. Deal is for 4 televised events, the first set to air on March 25th at 11 PM ET.
Twitter and Google Trends
Great news for Strikeforce here, as the key words “#Fedor“, “#Strikeforce“, “#HBO Plus“, “#IZOD“, “#Chad Griggs“, “#Del Rosario“, “#Lavar Johnson“, “#Arlovski“, “#Kharitonov“, “#Gina Caran0“, “#Pezao“, and “#Antonio Silva” were all top twitter trends during the evening of the Strikeforce: Fedor vs Silva event. In fact, “#Fedor” and “#Antonio Silva” were remarkably still top trends on Twitter hours after the event had finished. Another great stat here is that 7 out of 10 fighters who fought on the Showtime televised portion of the event were top twitter trends for the evening.
Also, “Fedor”, “Strikeforce Heavyweight Grand Prix”, “Antonio Silva”, “Andrei Arlovski”, “Sergei Kharitonov”, and “Strikeforce”, were all top searches. They were among the top 20 Google Trends in the U.S. on that evening, with “Fedor” reaching and staying at #1 for hours after the event ended.
This event was so popular in Brazil, that the top 3 trends for the evening were “#Strikeforce“, “#Fedor“, and “Pezao“. “HBO Plus” was trending since that is the network that televised the event in Brazil and in the majority of Latin America.
That would make it 7 out of the last 9 events that have trended on Twitter for Strikeforce, with the previous being the highly entertaining match-up between Nick Diaz and Evangelista “Cyborg” just a few weeks before this event.
Sponsor, Promotion and Marketing Watch
– All the usual sponsors where there for this event: FullTilt Poker, Rockstar, GoDaddy, ClinchGear, EA Sports MMA, etc. As we like to point out here on MMAPayout, we always like to see more synergy between big sponsors and the promotions. Metal Mulisha and Cage Hero are steadily growing in their roles in fighter sponsorship throughout these events.
– Strikeforce had a promo to Tweet where you were seated for a chance to win floor seats again, dubbed #sfpickme. Again, a great way to utilize the social media tools that they have. They are also hosting a Ring Girl Contest on their Facebook page as well to keep the motto going.
– Strikeforce is slowly integrating the fighters and their brands with the promotion. If we take a look at the Strikeforce Store, we now see that Dan Henderson is now being advertised on the front page with his own signature shirts for the upcoming Columbus event on March 5th. We will keep a look out and see if they will keep this strategy for future big show headliners. They have recently added new Fedor, King Mo, and Jason “Mayhem” Miller signature shirts as well.
Thanks for the write up Jose. I’ll post this to give a little more detail regarding my experience. Keep in mind that I’ve been to a lot of smaller shows, but this was my first SF and I was at one other big show – UFC 111 GSP v. Hardy. Overall this was a great event, with high drama and some amazing fights.
Prelims:
I arrived at 7:45, the fights had started at 7:30, there were already a lot of people there, but a less than what I saw at UFC 111 where most people showed up for the prelims. The arena filled up steadily but it wasn’t until around 9:30 that it was full. There were sections of supporters for certain fighters – Cholish, Gracie and Oropeza come to mind – but overall not a huge amount of interest in the prelims.
Audience:
The audience seemed more knowledgeable than what I had seen at UFC 111, much fewer guys flexing in their MMA-themed shirts, much less drunkenness and profanity. During the fights the atmosphere was closer to what I’ve seen in Japan (on TV) than what I saw at UFC 111. People watched the action quietly and intently, and then erupted when something dramatic happened. I was expecting the same crowd as for the UFC event, but I would say it was almost a different demographic. I can’t back that up with anything more than my two anecdotal observations, but it was something that hit me by surprise so I made a note of it.
My rough estimate is that the crowd was 1/4 to 1/3 Russian and 99% pro-Fedor. The cheers for Fedor were louder than for any other fighter on this card or the UFC 111 card. He received a standing ovation when he came out for the introductions, when he walked to the cage, and after his defeat (although a lot of people were also leaving by then).
When Kharitanov spoke in Russian all the Russian speakers cheered. After his comments were translated, the non-Russian speakers booed. There was definitely a hard-core Russian contingent in attendance. I don’t know if SF planned it this way, but it was a smart idea to have two Russians on a card in an area with a large Russian population. It gave them a strong boost.
Live Production:
The camera people were placed at the cage pillars so they did not interfere with the view. It seems obvious, but for some reason at UFC 111 the cameras were between the pillars, so you had to try to see between the pillars and the cameras into the cage (where the referee then did his part to get in the way). Depending on your seats and the heights of the fighters, the bar at the top of the cage can also block the fighters’ heads making it difficult to see punches landing. Overall, I am not thrilled with the cage for live viewing, but putting the cameras at the pillars is a big improvement.
The blood in the cage was wiped down between fights by guys with spray bottles (bleach?). I had never seen that before in any show. I wonder if that’s a Showtime issue, where they don’t want a lot of blood on the mat for their broadcast.
There were WWE-style live interviews during the show with the different fighters in the tournament. I’m not sure how it looked on TV, but it worked live and got a good reaction from the crowd. There was clearly an attempt by SF to pump up the crowd, beyond just having Jimmy Lennon Jr. announcing in the ring, and it worked.
There was a long pause between fights on the undercard and about 30 minutes between the undercard and the main event. It slowed some of the momentum from a card that had great fights. Of course, with so many stoppages that’s going to be an issue, but it seems like an area that can be improved.
The ring girls ALL came out between rounds in the main event. They looked ecstatic to finally have something to do.
The two between round stoppages were loudly (and in Fedor’s case vehemently) booed. It looked an issue with the commission and not the referee, and in both cases the fighters had finished the round out of danger (neither was saved by the bell) so the stoppages seemed unnecessary to those in attendance. Admittedly, it may have looked different in a close up on TV. Once Fedor’s face was put up on the big screen many people (although not the Russian fans) felt the stoppage to be justified.
The largest screen in the arena, the screen right above the fighters’ entrance, was used for the Strikeforce and M-1 logo when it could have been put to better use showing the fights. The only other screens were small and awkwardly placed.
Odd and ends
Both Barnett and Silva were booed. In Barnett’s case because of the steroids issue, in Silva’s it seemed like it was because he had the audacity to fight Fedor. Silva’s booing was in poor taste. He was booed in the intros, during his in-cage introduction, and after his amazing victory. Not a good showing by the fans doing it.
Merchandising was an afterthought. I only found one small stand – although there was probably another one on the other side of the arena. Besides UFC 111, I’ve been to a Wrestlemania at Madison Square Garden and both of those events leveraged their merchandising well. It seemed like SF left money on the table by not doing a better job of pushing their products.
Beers were $8.25. WTF? And cash only. I blame Coker.
Jose, Diego, great stuff. Enjoyed reading both your posts.
First, noticed an uptick in video game sales for EA Sports MMA as posted on vgchartz. The HW tournament seemed to have breathed a little bit of life in the fledgling game. They are now up to around 400K units sold. I think they will easily hit the 500K mark as the tournament rages on.
Second, if you watch that fan video around the 40 second mark, the kid is a prophet. Calling Silva to win in the second. That video is awesome btw.
Third, for some reason I found the quotes from Missy Hyatt really interesting. I’m not a huge pro wrestling fan although I watch back in the 80’s and I was probably the first wrestling to mma fan convert back in the day when I was lured into watching UFC 2 via PPV many years ago. She really described the event in an interesting perspective. I buy what she is selling.
I will mention this one last time hoping to get an answer. If there is one, which i doubt.
“NOTE: A key number to observe here is the peak number, which means more for Showtime because of the correlation between how many current and new subscribers are watching Strikeforce, which differs from the UFC, WEC, Bellator, and other promotions with TV deals (with non-subscription channels) which are ad and rating dependent.”
Spike TV and all ad driven tv charges based on viewers. Spike knows the end of every show is the highest viewed potion. There for charging more for that slot. This is premium placement which is why the main sponsor of the evening gets in the last commercial break. So peak viewers isn’t any more important to SF on Showtime than it is any program anywhere. Also as for the promotions themselves the peak number is just as important. Both peaking at 1 million has the same effect for both promotions.
Brain, this is what I had posted before. Maybe I’m not explaining the best way, but yes, I agree that peak share is important to both. However, average share is more important to Spike since the higher the average the more they can charge for ad space throughout the show and not just at the peak.
“The number Showtime really cares about is total views, that means peak # during the event (which is usually the biggest component of total views), plus peaks number of all the replays plus how many people checked out the fights on OnDemand. Ultimately, if those numbers are high, Showtime will put more money into MMA. The reason they care about that composite number of total views… because Showtime cares about how many of their subscribers derive value from any particular program.
Showtime is paying for content that they then sell on to their customers who pay a flat fee to access unlimited content for 1 month. As long as the perceived value of the content Showtime is offering is higher than or equal to the amount their customers are paying, Showtime will retain/increase its customer base. Showtime judges the perceived value of any particular product by how many people chose to watch it. This is how they view all of their products: Dexter, Strikeforce, Showtime Boxing, or the movies for which they pay a licensing fee. The higher the total views for any product, the more money Showtime is willing to put behind that product.
Networks that derive their revenue from ad sales typically track the quarterlies – ratings broken down by 15 minute segments – since what advertisers care about is how many people where watching at the time that their ad ran. Ad companies also care about demographics because their products/ads are targeted to certain segments of the population, so you will usually see the “key demos” breakdown as well.”
Good rating for Showtime, but with these sorts of numbers you have to wonder how Strikeforce would perform on basic cable. 741,000 average is good, but the UFC can draw millions of viewers on Spike TV for their events. I know the Strikeforce brandis not as strong, but I know at least 8 people who would’ve watched the Strikeforce event in their own home IF it were available on non-premium cable (Including me. Stream the events online for $, Showtime!!!). Strikeforce growth on Showtime=severely limited. Good for now though. Let’s see if they can crack a million viewers later this year. I doubt it only because of the aforementioned constraints of Showtime.
Anyone know what Showtime’s highest rated show is? It would be interesting to compare…
Nice write up Jose. When you tweeted last night that you were working on it I kept wondering what was taking you so long. Now I know. There is an error in the paragraph under “Attendance and Gate”. The last Fedor event wasn’t held in the same venue it was held in the HP Pavillion on the other coast.
Thanks for adding on Diego. Good to get the perspective from the event. I must say that I am disappointed that they aren’t getting more traction on the T-Shirt front. Though I did notice that the SF on line store was sold out of Fedor shirts before the event started. Whether that was due to over whelming demand or a case of poor supply management is the question. I will +1 your WTF on the beer price.
Diego,
Thanks for the detailed description of the live event. I went to Strikeforce:Evolution back in Dec.’09, and it’s a little disappointing to hear some of the production issues are still occurring. The pacing sounds just like I remember, with large breaks between fights killing the event’s momentum. I could tell the live event is clearly run around the TV broadcast timing, with little regard for how it affects the live experience (good ol’ Showtime). This is still where the UFC completely trounces Strikeforce in my opinion (which validates Dana White’s decision to forgo network deals that would force Zuffa to give up some of the production control; I truly believe it would detract from their product). I think the 6 sided cage vs the 8 sided cage determines the position of the cameramen (it was the same at WEC events to, with the cameramen in between the pillars. It can be a little frustrating, but it’s better than the waiting periods with no information on when the next fight will start. The difference in drunk flexers is probably because there are less casual fans at Strikeforce events who don’t understand the respect and discipline involved with MMA. I noticed this as well at the Strikeforce event vs Zuffa events.
I’m wondering why Strikeforce can’t get higher attendance numbers, especially in San Jose. The attendance at the Pavilion has gone down over the years, and I just don’t understand it given the rise in popularity of both MMA and Strikeforce. Seems odd that I went to Evolution in Dec. 2009 and it drew almost 15,000 headlined by Cung Le and Scott Smith, but a Fedor vs Werdum headliner can’t crack 12,000? It doesn’t make sense.
Machiel Van:
Dexter did 2.9 million for it’s season finally last year. But it should be noted that scripted programming is hella expensive to produce. The up side though is that it has a fairly long tail in syndication and DVD sales.
And beers are always that expensive, Diego, but CASH ONLY? That ‘s ridiculous, no wonder there were less drunkards at the event lol.
Thanks jv. I knew it wouldn’t be as high, and that they aren’t really comparable properties, but it gives an idea of what a popular Showtime production can draw. I’m actually surprised the rating was even that low considering Showtime has 18+ million subscribers and Dexter is one of the networks hottest properties.
As a follow up question about Showtime’s other programming, how does this event stack up to their boxing events?
Also, Michael Van, I think the SF’s decline in San Jose shouldn’t be seen as an aberration, but rather their initial success was the aberration. How many regional promotions sell 18,000 tickets in an arena? Even the highly successful MFC in MMA crazed Edmonton, Alberta could never dream of an arena show with 5,000 fans let alone selling out Rexall Place at 16,000 fans. Cung Le, Cesar Gracie, and Frank Shamrock all struck a cord in San Jose. Now that these guys have declined/retired, SF has taken a big hit in that market. That said, a guy like Nick Diaz seems to be slowly building up his own following in that region.
Awesome, awesome breakdown. Great article. I’m of the opinion that Strikeforce has been doing the things they need to to continue riding their current wave of success. The Grand Prix was a genius move to help boost their popularity, and these numbers for Fedor vs. Silva really reflect that. I will be interested to see how fans respond to Fedor’s loss, in terms of future tourney event attendance, but for now I think they’re on the up and up. As MMA becomes more popular, and as SF grows, more and more MMA hardcores will give credit to SF and pay to see it.
Diego:
Thank for for posting your observations. Really, great job. A lot of interesting tidbits there.
mmaguru:
I heard VGChartz is not incredibly reliable on numbers, but I believe it is true, that EA Sports MMA could be on a little spike here in terms of sales. It’s a shame that they didn’t include GP’s in their games. P.S. I heard that development for EA MMA 2 is ongoing, hopefully it sees the light of day.
I also enjoyed reading Hyatt’s take on the fights. Oh, and I saw that video before the fight and though about it after the fights were over… LOL. That kid is a winner.
Machiel Van:
You bring up a great point, and I can tell you that a fight HBO spent 3 million dollars on Bradley vs Alexander only did about a 1.45 million viewers, which was one of their marquee fights. The budget for SF is probably about 1/3 of that, so that should tell you something. I am working on a Showtime write-up that will tackle all those questions.
I talk also talk about Strikeforce attendance dropping due to their change from a regional promotional to a national one here (storylines #6):
http://mmapayout.com/2010/10/strikeforce-diaz-vs-noons-ii-payout-perspective/
Mike:
Thank you, appreciate it.
TheRage:
I agree with your points there, and I address how it compares to boxing above. =)
>”I am working on a Showtime write-up that will tackle all those questions.”
You’ve been teasing that one for about a month now. Dog ate your home work? 🙂 Just kidding. It’s easy to see you put a lot of work into these, happy to see it when it’s ready.
Jose,
Quick correction: HBO produced the Bradley-Alexander fight. It averaged about 1.45 million. It’s peak was 2.65 million.
John S:
Thank you for that, meant to say HBO did 1.45 million.
BTW, Kevin Iole reported it did 1.45 million viewers peak with a HH rating of 2.65.
#HBO #boxing ratings poor for Bradley-Alexander: 1.454 million peak, 2.65 HH rating. #Showtime #MMA ratings: 653k peak viewers.
http://twitter.com/KevinI/status/32535748167081984
All Nielsen ratings said was this:
HBO WCB Boxing – January 29, 2011 – Bradley-Alexander – 1.345 million live viewers
Jose,
You’re right on your numbers, the source I used was wrong.
So for less than half what HBO paid Showtime got 80% the ratings. Not a bad deal for them.
John S:
And I would go ahead and say that it’s probably closer to 1/3 of what HBO paid , but I agree with your statement. 🙂
Diego,
This will be my last post on this story about the ratings. I dont want to distract from the article. But i do want to say that i dont believe what you posted. I know its what you hear. But IMO that is premium channel propaganda to appear more important that they really are. They like to advertise the peak number to portray a show as popular and successful. But i dont believe they base the shows success on those numbers. It is not an accurate number of who is enjoying the product. What if Zero people watched the first 1 hour and 45 minutes of the show and 2 million watched the last 15 minutes for whatever reason(lead in, coincidence, etc.) Would that be a success? No it wouldnt. No one saw 90% of the product. Also there is no proof the people who catch the end of the show are liking what they see. If they did the next show would have a higher number of viewers from the start. As an example i caught the end of the first episode of Lights Out on FX. Loved it. I was a peak viewer for them. But because i like the show i made sure i caught every episode from the start. The product turn a peak viewers into a full show viewer which increases the average ratings across the entire show. SF isnt doing that. They are not gaining acceptance from these peak viewers and therefore cant be judges as if they are a success based on the peak. Showtime can put anything on as a lead in for a succesful show and draw large peak viewers who are waiting for the successful show to start. Does that make the lead in a successful show that showtime will blindly look at the peak and dump money into? No it wouldnt. Peak numbers are great when you can convert them or charge advertisers to reach them. But if you are not doing either then it is almost meaningless, imo.
BrainSmasher:
Showtime on ratings:
Sorry for the delay on the Showtime piece… put I will try and get it out this week.
🙂
Brain,
I have watched a lot of combat sports with casual fans to realize that most casuals don’t pay attention until the main event. That seems to be enough to motivate them to pay a PPV fee and tune in to the next big main event. In any case, even if you look at the average number, this blows previous Showtime MMA events out of the water and is competitive with boxing events. That is huge news.
Jose
Im not talking about multi showings. Im refering to taking the highest rated minute and basic a shows success on that minute. Also i never said SF doesnt claim to use peak viewers. But they behind the scenes dont put much weight into them but they do use them as a marketing tool. Of course they will tall you that number is more important. Spike TV tells me 10 million people watched Forrest vs Bonner. Just because a business tells me what number is important dont mean it is. Their peak number is no different than anyone elses. Just because people tune into he end of a show dont mean they enjoyed it. I have had a lot of crap on my tv i dont care for. Showtime is trying to use a different set of numbers to avoid comparison to other networks and events. The same way spike tv promotes their young male demographic and claims that is the only number that matters as a way of measuring up to network numbers like NBC and CBS. The truth is those arent the only numbers that matter but they have to say so. You cant be on network tv during prime time if you dont have the total viewers. 1 demographic wont make you the NFL. Again this is the way i see it and i dont think redirecting Showtime propaganda is going to change my view. I have follow tv ratings for a very long time and during the SF venture is the only time i have ever heard anyone pass off peak numbers as the most important statistic.
Rage
That is the case for most combat sports. But that is why ratings are averaged over the length of the show to account for late viewers. But not everyone just catches the main event. There is no more people tuning in for just the main event in SF then the UFC. There is a small percent who do it. But all programs have the problem so its nothing exclusive to SF. SF is kind of double dipping. The peak viewers are alreadt added into the average boosting it much higher than the average people who watched most of the show. Then they go and promote a numbers that only watched a few minutes like it was must see tv. I didnt say SF ratings werent good. They were very good. But i dont like when people spin info to be something they are not.
It would be very interesting to see quarter hour ratings for these strikeforce events.
BrainSmasher:
What TheRage says is true, most of the casuals only care about the main event, which is when typically the peak numbers to any combat sport event happen, blame boxing. You can’t compare a TV show with a storyline to a multi-bout sporting event.
I’ve told you this before, but Showtime does NOT release their ratings, so it is not them who is trying to spin anything around. What I posted above is their reply to tons of questions from MMA fans and media worried about ratings on their network.
Spike TV, like you said, releases their ratings on a PR and they do obviously mention the demos that gives them wins over other networks. The only media folks who release ratings for MMA are MMAJunkie and Dave Meltzer. MMAJunkie puts a lot of emphasis on peaks, so does a lot of other media because they can say, x amount of viewers watched the show. Dave Meltzer likes to to focus on rating numbers instead of avg and peak viewers because that is as fair as a comparison as possible when talking about MMA that airs on Spike, Versus, and Showtime, platforms with completely different household numbers.
Does a PPV company care that they had x amount of average viewers if 80% of their buys come in the last 30 minutes of their 2 hour PPV slot? No, they still get the money. Same thing applies to Strikeforce on Showtime. As long as viewers tune in (peak #) and they are happy with the content, even if they catch a replay or the event on demand later on that night, which wouldn’t be reflected in the avg number, its still good to them because someone had to pick up the phone, call their cable provider, and order the network, which adds another to their subscription base, or is happy with MMA to keep Showtime on their cable bill.
>”MMAJunkie puts a lot of emphasis on peaks,”
They used to do that but the UFC fans whined and bitched about it and now they focus on average numbers and the peaks can be hard to find some times.
Brain,
Clearly there is a difference between making money from someone paying for a product, versus making money from advertising revenue. In the former case, it doesn’t matter is someone consumes the whole product, it only matters if the person paid full price for it. If people are content with paying good money to just see a main event (and many are) so be it. In the latter case, clearly a business would want as many ads consumed as possible. Now, it is important not to compare apples to oranges–comparing peak results on Showtime to average results on Spike would be asinine. But barring that caveat, of course peak numbers matter more for Showtime than average numbers. If you saw it and liked it, and that encourages you to keep paying the subscription, then that’s a win for Showtime, no matter how much you actually watched it.
“I’ve told you this before, but Showtime does NOT release their ratings, so it is not them who is trying to spin anything around.”
They have before dating back to Elite XC even countering the UFC press release.
“Does a PPV company care that they had x amount of average viewers if 80% of their buys come in the last 30 minutes of their 2 hour PPV slot?”
No, but SF isnt PPV. Most of the viewers didnt buy Showtime for Strikeforce.
“As long as viewers tune in (peak #) and they are happy with the content, even if they catch a replay or the event on demand later on that night, which wouldn’t be reflected in the avg number”
we are talking about Strikeforce as a product not Showtime. Yes i know Showtime likes to add the numbers of replays together to inflate their numbers when many are repeat viewers. Another example of them double dipping. Another reason not to use the peak.
“its still good to them because someone had to pick up the phone, call their cable provider, and order the network, which adds another to their subscription base, or is happy with MMA to keep Showtime on their cable bill.”
Really, you have numbers to show how many of the peak ordered Showtime for SF? You know they were all happy with the product? How? There is no way to know any information about the peak numbers. Its find of funny everyone wants to assume all the peak viewers buy Showtime for SF and decide to keep it because SF.
What is clear is SF seems to have a higher number of peak viewers to average ratio that any other combat sports even the UFC. If they are so happy with the product why are they not tuning in earlier? There are very few SF fans who are not already watching the UFC. So im not going to buy the viewer base is that different. The only facts that can be taken out of the peak viewers is they are not compelled by the end of the product to catch the start of it. The rest is pure speculation. Average viewers is the real gauge of how popular and success a SF and UFC event is.
I know we aren’t getting any where, Its really preference. Some want to make strike force appear bigger and more successful than they really are. Some want accurate numbers of approximately how many watch the Strike Force “EVENT”, not the closing credits.
It’s not about making SF appear bigger and more successful than they really are. Both average and peak numbers are available. Both are good data points. Each tells a slightly different story.
I think it was Junkie that provided these numbers, not SF or Showtime. Bottom line: there’s no pro-SF/anti-UFC conspiracy here.
I think we beat this one to death. No one in this discussion is likely to change their opinions.
Bottom, bottom line: it was a successful event both at the gate, and in the ratings.
BrainSmasher:
“They have before dating back to Elite XC even countering the UFC press release.”
I know EliteXC has in the past, but that was CBS if I am not mistaken. Don’t think Showtime ever really releases them, or not that I recall. MMAjunkie and Meltzer constantly release their ratings for MMA. So would you be arguing that Dave Meltzer and MMAJunkie are blowing up their numbers?
“No, but SF isnt PPV. Most of the viewers didnt buy Showtime for Strikeforce.”
But Strikeforce on Showtime is also not a typical network that is advertisement and sponsor driven, so which one is it?
BTW, I think both numbers are important as they both tell a different story, but I also believe that the average numbers for Showtime don’t mean anywhere near as much as they do for CBS and Spike.
You are right. Average numbers for CBS and Spite are more important. But that is not because their success is gauged differently. Just that they are paid based on those numbers. Strikeforce numbers in that case are really meaningless. The only thing that really matters for Showtime is Subscriptions and cancellations. The numbers have nothing to do with either of those. Showtime can claim that if 1 million people landed on SF at some point they were happy with the product but we both know that isnt the case. It really only means the subscriber got some use out of their subscription but we dont know they satisfation level. But Strikeforce on the other hand should care about the average. You cant build stars when no one is watching anything but the final fight or end credits. Griggs is one of their prospects (even though marginally skilled) and he needs to be seen to have any chance of having value. SF needs people to see all their fighters to have a future. They need people to watch all the product to have any value in ring Ads and their fighters to demand much in sponsorships.
Peak numbers are really only good at the start of a product. If this was one of Strikeforces first events then you could say 1 million people tuned in at the end. Now we can look at later events and see how many were turned onto the product by catchign the next show. Similar to how Forrest Bonner peaked high and created buzz that lead to the UFC getting increased numbers across the board for their entire Org. But that isnt happening with SF. They are not creating fans out of the peak numbers. They just keep getting high number the last quarter hour of the broadcast thats they cant do anything with. So until they convert those into fans they really are meaningless.
This SF averaged 741K and peaked at 1.1. It would have been better for SF and Showtime if the average was 900K and peaked at 1.0. We all know this is true. SF and Showtime would trade the peak viewer decline for more people seeing the entire product and actually seeing the entire even. Showtime gets subscribers watching for 2 hours rather than 15 minutes. A customer seeing 15 minutes of a program isnt a happy customer IMO. Thats why the average is better and more important because both would trade a 100K peak for 100K average in a heart beat. Peak is just a marketing tool with no real value other than throwing a bigger number out there.
BrainSmasher:
You raise some good points but there are some flaws there. Strikeforce shows keep airing on the network after the initial viewing, so if fans missed the entire show, there are many more possibilities to watch it again via On Demand and replays.
Second is that the Challenger shows are meant to focus on raising awareness on prospects, so they are trying to give exposure and not just depending on the big show under-cards to produce stars.
Third, they are working on other platforms to distribute the product, not just through their big shows. They are hoping to announce a syndicated show in the next 2 quarters.
And finally, though the peak number is excellent this time around, obviously they would love to have higher numbers for both peak and average numbers on a consistent basis. It’s not like no one is watching the undercards and just tuning in for the main event though. In the last 3 big events, 80% of the fighters have trended on Twitter. In the last challengers card, Beerbohm and Ryan Couture both trended. Not only that, the viewership has been increasing for both Challenger and big events. Just on that alone, it’s pretty obvious to see that the Strikeforce fanbase has grown by a sizable margin in the last 2 years. Just 6 months ago, Strikeforce would never even trend on Twitter. In that same span, Strikeforce has also increased their subscribers, whether you want to call it a coincidence or not, it has positively affected Strikeforce.
That’s pretty much it. And if you want SF to average 900K viewers on Showtime, then you are asking them to perform much better than what the typical boxing show does on the station with 1/3 of the budget, which would be unfair. Considering where they are as a promotion, how long they have aired on the station, and what type of reach Showtime has, they are doing really well. They are pretty much outperforming the WEC now, which was Zuffa backed and pushed on a station that had 8 times the reach and on most standard cable packages.
Let me just say this, the numbers they received from the SF HW GP 1st round got everyone’s attention at Showtime and CBS, to the point where a CBS show may be in discussions soon and has a few folks within the MMA landscape talking about the possibilities.
That all sounds good. Reminded me of Don King promoting a fight. Strange coming from a news site. Anyway i agree with most of it even though it really never touched on anything i had said. SF shows great as were the ratings. Never disputed that. My concern was the inaccurate use of the numbers to mislead. Yes SF has replays and on Demand. Yet many people watch the show more than once and are double counted. Spike often run replays too you dont see news sites adding the broadcast together to get a larger number either. Spike has done this to hype their product which i expect thema dn aSF/Showtime to do also. But i expect more from media sites which this is. Also i never said i wanted SF to do 900K. That was a number i threw out as an example to show they would rather have higher average than higher peak. Yet media puts a larger emphasis on peak when the promotion would rather have average. Why is that? Becuase the peak isnt that important.
Yes SF is getting close to the level of WEC but lets not make them out to be doing something out of nothing by mentioning the reach of Verses. Households a network is available in is over hyped. Ion is in 100 million homes, roughly 12% less than someone like NBC who is in 114 million. Am i to believe Ion only get 12% less viewers? No! The households dont matter. What does matter is how many regular viewers a network has. NBC has roughly 40+ million viewers everyday with some shows hitting over 20 million alone. Ion has maybe 1 million regular viewers daily. Verses is a transformed hunting channel with maybea little more than 1 million regular viewers compared to Showtimes 10-20 million regular viewers which is comprised of millions of boxing fans. Lets not pretend Verses is a better gig than Showtime, even in attracting viewers.
In closing, i hope Striekforce does well. They are going good and i hope it continues and i look forward to tracking it. That success will be measured in average viewers not peak numbers as i have shown the average to be more important to everyone involved as it is the truw measure of success.
BrainSmasher:
Well, that was my reply to your comments:
“But Strikeforce on the other hand should care about the average. You cant build stars when no one is watching anything but the final fight or end credits …They are not creating fans out of the peak numbers. They just keep getting high number the last quarter hour of the broadcast thats they cant do anything with. So until they convert those into fans they really are meaningless.”
Can’t tell you why, other than over “1 million tuned in to watch” sounds a lot sexier than “740,000 average viewers turned in to watch”.
The inaccurate use of numbers, as you put it, is not something that is isolated here or anywhere else. Many factors can blow up those numbers in the first place, so not sure what to tell you there. You and I know very well that numbers, can be spun many different ways to prop you up.
Yes you talked down versus but in November of last year, Oregon vs California set their viewership record with and average of more than 1.9 million viewers, and broke the previous record of 1.6 million the year before that with Oregon vs Oregon St. It’s not like Versus is really known for showing anything but Hockey and Bull Riding, but that didn’t stop college football from getting great numbers. Let’s not also forget that WEC 34 did an average of 1.54 million viewers in 2008, so it’s not like they aren’t capable of getting those numbers, but I agree that no one is going to tell you that Versus is a better platform than Showtime is right now, though things may change if the re-branding to NBC Sports takes off.
You addressed SF using Challenger to promote the filler fighters they got from Wild Bills Fight Night. My comment was geared towards the up and comers like Griggs. We both can agree he has set his self up as their biggest prospect they have created regardless of my opinion of him. He is one win or two from title contention. Yet more than half of the “all important” peak viewers never saw his fight. You need people to see him fight so he is credible when he takes on a champ or the belt and the champ lose respect. That is why its more important to have a high average because it allows you to build future events by building fighters. So getting these peak main event viewers to tune in earlier should be the goal of SF and the real value of peak. Which is to see how many people are giving you the chance to win them over. There is roughly 350-400K watching SF at the start and 1 million at the end each event. That is way to big of a gap. When SF starts doing better with match making and creating stars(specifically their own stars not UFC and Pride) im sure people will start to respect the Promotion and they will convert the peak viewers. They are yet to do so.
“The inaccurate use of numbers, as you put it, is not something that is isolated here or anywhere else. Many factors can blow up those numbers in the first place, so not sure what to tell you there. You and I know very well that numbers, can be spun many different ways to prop you up.”
Yes Junkie uses these numbers and they are copied here. My point is that the peak as i have shown is not more important to SF or Showtime as both would prefer a higher average. Yet every event lies are passed to the public that peak viewers is the only number that matter and is the measure of the events success.
Now normally i would have a problem except that they are not doing the same for any other MMA event. They change the measure of success for SF to avoid comparison to other promotions. They justify it by claiming Showtime values the peak when they dont. But peak is the number thats bigger and they run with it. There is no reason why Showtime would put value in peak as it doesnt tell you anything about the product.
As for Verses numbers. I never said a network could draw people with special programs. We saw this with UFC on Ion. But Verses doesnt have 1 million viewers who watch everyday. Sure they can put a large college game on that has tons of fans across the country and these fans will find the game. But the same Oregon game on NBC would have had 4 million viewers easily. Simply because NBC has many more people who are watching all hours of the day and find themselves watching the game. In that case 12% more households turned into 60% more viewers. The Network following is more important the how many households they are in. Showtime has a larger following that Verses despite the household numbers.
BrainSmasher:
Yes, MMAJunkie uses the number and they are copied here because frankly, only Junkie and Meltzer releases them, but remember that we report both numbers and demo ratings as well whenever they are available. For examples of MMA ratings being reported by the media, look no further than the link below:
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&tbs=dsc:1&q=site:mmajunkie.com+ufc+peak+rating&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=1&cad=b
As my last statement, I get what you are trying to say about averages and peaks, but like others have said on this website, comparing Showtime ratings with Spike, CBS, or any other network and what peaks and averages mean is like comparing apples and oranges. Yes, the bottom line for Showtime is adding content that will increase their subscription base and increase the dollar per subscriber ratio on their end.
I agree the numbers for Spike and Showtime are apples and oranges. But the public understands that. Just as they dont expect Spike TV to have the same average as NBC. But that doesnt mean Spike will quit using average. Just because Strikeforce cant reach Spike average doesnt mean they should tell the public the number isnt important anyway.
“Just because Strikeforce cant reach Spike average doesnt mean they should tell the public the number isnt important anyway.”
No one at SF is saying that the average isn’t important. You are putting words in their mouths. Find me the quote where anyone from SF or Showtime says that. Hirshman is saying that he is more interested in total views because he doesn’t care about ad revenue. That’s different. Obviously he still cares about average ratings and views, but peak and total views are more important to him based on the subscription channel business model.
And no one at SF or Showtime is avoiding talking about average because they can’t reach the Spike average. They aren’t talking about average because as a rule they don’t discuss their ratings at all. Just like Zuffa doesn’t discuss it’s PPV results.
And once again: THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY HERE. No one is trying to make SF on Showtime look bigger than it is, or tear down the UFC on Spike or Versus. No one in the industry is volunteering this information, and reporters are left to try to find out whatever they can. There have been rumors for a long time that Meltzer’s reports on PPV buys are off, but in the absence of any data from Zuffa, it’s all we have to go on.
“That all sounds good. Reminded me of Don King promoting a fight. Strange coming from a news site. ”
That’s just insulting. This is bar none the best site for analyzing the business side of the sport. And anything posted in the comments section rather than the main article is allowed more leeway in terms of being opinionated. With that said, I thought Jose’s comments were well reasoned and sourced and dare I say it, “fair and balanced”.
“That success will be measured in average viewers not peak numbers as i have shown the average to be more important to everyone involved as it is the truw measure of success.”
No it won’t. Success will be measured by the metrics established by Showtime and their parent company CBS and will vary depending on whether the show is on a subscription driven platform or an ad revenue driven one.
It all sounds real good repeating “subscription based” over and over. I asked for anyone to show me evidence that the peak viewer numbers has anything to do with subscriptions or cancellations. What Showtime needs is people to like their programing. The peak number didnt watch the program/event. They watched 1 fight or a half of a fight. There is no way of knowing the satisfaction rating of those viewers. Just because Showtime says that is the number they used dont mean they are telling the truth. Its their job to spin info to hype the product. And 1 million sounds better than 500K.
You are right their success will be determained by Showtime and CBS. But do you really think you will ever know their true feelings of the product? They will tell you everything is great and numbers were awesome until the day they refuse to renew the contract. In the end there is no reason in the world to base a program on Peak numbers. There is no information in those numbers.
Spike TV and the UFC are ad driven. But do you really think the UFC cares about their adrevenue? They get roughly 100K off an hour show. Thats peanuts. What they want is people watchign their product to see their sponsors on the canvas and even more important to hear the announcers built the fighters so people tune in later and buy the PPV. That want their product to be seen so it grows. SF using peak only shows how many people dont care about the product. Showtime could claim the starting rating is the only one they go by and you would believe it. But if it dont add up then it likely isn’t true.
Hello,
I really enjoy visiting your website and being fed information so specific to my specialized interest. I am a current 2L at Cleveland-Marshall College of Law, as well as a soon to be MBA candidate. This semester, I am studying in a sports contracting and negotiation class with Peter Carfagna (Head Council of IMG) and I am interested in using MMA business strategy as the subject of my final project for the class.
I have been in contact with strikeforce about getting interviews with their staff in Columbus and plan to have time slots secured by Wednesday. I would like to know if I could contribute to your coverage of the Strikeforce event while I am gathering information for my project.
Keep up the GREAT WORK!
Sherrod Seward
614.288.8353
“I asked for anyone to show me evidence that the peak viewer numbers has anything to do with subscriptions or cancellations. ”
That evidence is with Showtime. They know how their ratings are linked to their subscription rates. We don’t have the data. But you are wrong to think that means it doesn’t exist. This is a case where absence of proof is not proof of absence.
“There is no way of knowing the satisfaction rating of those viewers. ”
That’s true of any ratings snapshot, whether on a subscription based or ad driven network. That’s why you need to look at trends (and SF is trending very well by the way). If the peaks and averages are increasing over time, then you can assume that viewers are returning (meaning they are satisfied) while new viewers join in.
“. Just because Showtime says that is the number they used dont mean they are telling the truth. Its their job to spin info to hype the product. And 1 million sounds better than 500K.”
For the last time – Showtime did not report these numbers. They don’t give a damn what any of us think. They are not trying to spin anything. This is getting aggravating.
“But do you really think you will ever know their true feelings of the product?”
I’m not really sure where you’re going with that statement. Is this a philosophical question? No, we can’t know how they really feel for sure, but based on the latest ratings, we can make a fairly decent guess that they are pretty damn happy. And the reason we can make that guess is that ratings = success. And in general, there is a positive correlation between happiness and success.
As long as they keep showing MMA, we can assume they are happy with it. When they cancel it, we can assume they are no longer happy with it. In the meantime we can try to estimate their level of happiness by looking at how the shows are doing ratings wise.
“In the end there is no reason in the world to base a program on Peak numbers. There is no information in those numbers.”
This is categorically wrong. I’ve discussed it before as have others and I’m not rehashing the same points again.
“But do you really think the UFC cares about their adrevenue? ”
Absolutely. If Spike didn’t generate ad revenue from UFC content they would stop showing it. And shows like TUF and UFC Unleashed drive huge numbers of PPVs. Zuffa would be fools not to care about their shows’ ad revenues on Spike.
“SF using peak only shows how many people dont care about the product. Showtime could claim the starting rating is the only one they go by and you would believe it. But if it dont add up then it likely isn’t true.”
???? That makes absolutely no sense. I don’t even know how to respond.
“That’s true of any ratings snapshot, whether on a subscription based or ad driven network. That’s why you need to look at trends (and SF is trending very well by the way). If the peaks and averages are increasing over time, then you can assume that viewers are returning (meaning they are satisfied) while new viewers join in.”
No it isnt. You can judge satisfaction of average viewers. If people consistently watch the entire show each time then you can be pretty confident they are consumed by what they are seeing. Thats why Average is so important. The peak suggest the people didnt care about the rest of the show or any part of the show. It also includes the same viewer many times to inflate the numbers when they include replays.
“For the last time – Showtime did not report these numbers. They don’t give a damn what any of us think. They are not trying to spin anything. This is getting aggravating.”
Yes they do. You can believe that Junkie gets these numbers out of thin air if you want. They get them from Showtime. What ever the case Showtime is releasing numbers. They do it for many of their shows from “Weeds” to “Dexter” hyping their total viewers to drum up PR.
“Absolutely. If Spike didn’t generate ad revenue from UFC content they would stop showing it. And shows like TUF and UFC Unleashed drive huge numbers of PPVs. Zuffa would be fools not to care about their shows’ ad revenues on Spike.”
I didnt say Spike i said the UFC. I was also refering to just the money the UFC gets is Ads. They dont care about that money. They want the people watching because they cling to the fighters they see and buy the PPV. For that to happen the UFC needs fans seeing all the product. Not the end.