Boxing writer Steve Kim of the new Undisputed Champion Network web site wrote an article on whether boxing has too many PPVs on the eve of Canelo Alvarez’s third appearance on PPV within 12 months. The question is not new to UFC fan as they have been asking the question for some time.
For the UFC fan, UFC 174 exemplified the thesis that there are too many PPVs. Preliminary reports have that PPV featuring Flyweight champ Demetrious Johnson anywhere between 95,000 to 125,000 PPV buys. Regardless of where that number ended, it was the lowest output for a UFC PPV since 2006. It reflects the new market for PPV in the UFC. Fans will pick and choose which cards they want to purchase and it’s unlikely we’ll see 1 million PPV buy main events in the near future.
Kim talked to Showtime’s Stephen Espinoza prior to Canelo-Lara:
“I think we’re having a confluence of pay-per-views really, simply because we have three or four fighters who can legitimately carry a pay-per-view and they’ve decided to make the decision to go there,” said Stephen Espinoza, Executive VP and GM for Showtime Sports and Event Programming, whose company is distributing this weekend’s event. “As for the network, we’d always prefer to have everything on the network. There’s certain realities which make that unrealistic but ultimately, it’s the fighter and the promoter that make that decision of when they want to go pay-per-view, when they don’t.
Kim also questioned whether boxing can go down the UFC road:
Still, a pay-per-view a month? What is this, the UFC? Does boxing really have that many fights worthy of such a designation?
The cynical MMA fan would say that the UFC doesn’t have that many PPV-worthy cards yet the UFC offers monthly cards on PPV for $55 per event.
Payout Perspective:
For those that follow us, we touched on boxing beefing up its PPVs back in April. If you were to replace boxing with MMA in the article, the issues would be the same with the exception that Espinoza comments place the issue on the fighter/promoter rather than the network. In the UFC, the decision is all on the company whether it runs a PPV event and who will be on the card. In my opinion, a reason for more PPVs in boxing is a trickle-down theory in combat sports. Fighter/promoter payouts can be mitigated if a fight is put on PPV. Essentially profit margins are wider if you charge fans $60 for a fight rather than put it on subscription based television. It seems like this is the strategy rather than the previous strategy of waiting for a big fight with two top names. Certainly fighters have fought on HBO and Showtime in hopes that their career would ascend to a PPV. In recent weeks, boxing has put on some exciting fights on both premium subscription networks. So, the question is whether boxing fan will shell out $60-$75 for a fight that used to be on the networks.
Its just like everything else! Greed! Too many ppv’s, too many casinos, too many reality shows, too many dam movie channels, too many cable channels,too many shopping malls,too many pizza joints, too many this, too many that, they try to squeeze every dime they can out of it until it wears itself out and is too watered down and no one give a crap or buys it anymore. so sad! So many markets get killed because of over saturation.
i fucking feel like im in crazy town! you internet shit-dogs have very selective memory and your long and short memory are destroyed because your nicotinic receptors are clouded by extreme bias and ” old school hardcore fan” hatred! the UFC had 1 million+ for 168, Jon Jones just accumulated 400k+ earlier this year, and UFC 175 just sold 500k+ ppvs! there is no problem with ppvs for either sports you doggy-dick sucking idiots!
the problem for the UFC is injured champions and fighters; the problem for boxing is stupid ass promoters making the wrong fights! simple as that you loose booty hole bitches! when gsp returns against Anderson Silva early next year and does 1.2 million+ will ppv be dead then? when Cain and Jon fight on the same ppv and they do 800 to 900k+ is ppv dead then? when floyd and manny fight and pull huge numbers is ppv dead then?
shut the fuck up you sissified ass trick ass hoes and yes the UFC WILL have 1 million+ ppvs sold for the new years card yet AGAIN
I don’t think you can say the UFC won’t do another million PPV. There is no way to say that. When they happen they are Out of the blue. Didn’t anyone know Chael would do a million PPV a year before it happened? He come from no where to be a draw. Currently there isn’t a million PPV fight. But things always happen that sparks passion and interest in a match or fights. Unlike WWE drama just happens and isn’t created. So it happens out of no where. What happens if Gus beats Jones in a close war? The rubber match will be huge. How much shit will Rousey talk when she loses? How big is the rematch going to be? If she wins the rematch. How big would that rubber match be? How many fans will start watching mma because the new woman additions? How many of those will start following other fighters and me fighters. Emma is bring in a new demo and growing the UFC fan base as a whole. Which make 1 million PPV’s easier to hit in the future. The sport isn’t scripted. Those things happen when the stars align and they are supposed to happen.
There’s definitely way too many PPV’s, especially in the USA. In Latin America, Especially México, the big money flows from the powerful TV networks that are constantly trying to outbid each other for the rights to the big boxing fights. Everything is broadcast on network TV (free), huge audience and lots of companies spending a ridiculous amount of money buying airtime to advertise their products during the fights.
When the UFC made its way to México back in UFC 100, it made its debut on network TV and had impressive ratings, and ever since it transitioned to Satellite subscription channels (who knows why) it has pretty much withered away. PPV and Subscription channels are definitely the signs of a Niche sport in any given country.
Illogical analysis.
logical what you speak of is simply a business restructuring. those were test market deals back then and now its a legit movement into that territory.hmmmmmm yes, they do have an over the air presence. have no idea where you got that thought from
brian you can easily predict a big ppv, its not hard to do at all but the UFC would much rather take the scattered accumulation approach and besides the days of “worrying” about ratings,ppv sales, tv deals, etc. are WELL and TRULY OVER
if everyone did their research and took even a slight glimpse inside the vast array of revenue streams the UFC has there would never even be stories like this. the detractors arent looking at the entire picture. it truly stuns and boggles my mind just knowing about what the UFC generates
come now lets have a legitimate back and forth: in-depth arguments and counter arguments; dont dirty up the higher level conversation with base responses like “Illogical analysis.” if you dont understand and arent intelligent enough to deduce you own argument, then by all means sit on the sidelines whilst we indulge. dont bother the players with such trifle and easily ignorable affairs
Actually its all speculation, we don’t know the inside of the UFC’s financial records. Their could be a number of things going on, really good or bad. But any intelligent person can look at it and figure you don’t go from losing millions of ppv buys and Tuf ratings and claiming the business is doing great. Something is off IMO, trying to predict the future is completely a gamble. It could, it may, if this happens and so forth is a pipe dream of dogshit and wishful thinking. Only time will tell. At the end of the day you only have whats here now! not the past and not the future.
Sal, making more shit up? When did they lose millions of ppv buys?
You do realize prior to the FOX deal, they were doing 75% of their business from ppv. After the deal, plus a number of other deals, they brought that down to 55%. So if you go back 3 years ago, they also didn’t have a number of tv contracts plus merchandise deals.
There is no speculation with that.
TruthSpitter, I was talking to the illogical Logical, not you.
ah youll have to forgive me D for i thought you were speaking of me. all is well though as the loss in ppv buys is now MORE than supplanted by ad splits (live and re-airings of content), tv deal license revenue per event (over the air broadcast and cable, satellite, etc.), custom regional specific in content sponsors (live and recorded events, shows,etc.), site fees, ticket sales, merchandise sales, subscription channels (UFC Network, Combate Channel, etc.), Fight Pass, UFC Gyms, etc. and yes there are more ventures which generate steady revenue streams
the ratings are doing extremely well, you are speaking of the viewership numbers which are lower (Except Big FOX) for obvious reasons
Boxing adjusts to what the market will bare… If the PPVs dry up then they will go back to HBO/SHO.
We saw this happen in 2006/2007/2008… Its not exactly new
And generate less revenue in the process.
AAAA D they are losing PPV numbers right fucking now genius. Can you count sucker? And all your double talk and splitting hairs and saying low ppv numbers is a good things is so laughable UFC is crapping in their pants right now. They are way down on the entire business of ppv. for what? A lot of shitty small fights in shit countries. News flash they are going backwards not forwards. All the push was to make the sport bigger and sell more ppv’s all the fox crap is basically an advertisement to get people to buy ppv’s not to give it up. ugh moron!! Oh wait they are selling more t shirts bahahaha so stupid. And your numbers are guesses you have no clue what percentage they are at or what deals they have its all bullshit unless we see contracts and tax returns. Try again.
Truth, you have no clue any of these ventures are making or losing money. So stop with the BS. They could be making millions for all we know or it could be pushing them to the edge. Dana didn’t look like a guy that was having a good night when he started yelling like an amateur at Rogan. He looked like a guy who is very concerned and worried to me. If we go by what we can see and that’s ppv numbers and tv views the UFC is off bad for the first half of 2014. No spin can change that. nice try
the tv views are off to a bad start? the programming has been doing incredibly well. the last UFC on FOX event was the number 1 program in all of america that day (whether broadcast or cable), the UFC just lead FOX Sports 1 to be the number one sports cable channel in various prime-time demographics. FOX Sports 1 really has no semblance of audience mind share nor high penetration throughout households yet this feat was still accomplished by the UFC.
the amassed ppv buy-rate number ( the ONLY number that matters to the UFC) for the year so far is 2.110 million but as ive said before the UFC is divesting out of the ppv industry in favor of massive tv deals and subscription/cable channel partnerships/full outright ownership. theyll be brought out of ppv by summer to fall 2018 or earlier by FOX, CBS, ABC/ESPN,or NBC (or a multiple broadcast network “shared” content deal or separate deals with each) with Fight Night events packages airing over a variety of cable channels (tnt, espn, espn 2, nbc sports, etc.) they may even partner with a high level massive broadcaster to create their subscription/cable channel or they could possibly launch it themselves. the choice is theirs
Salda if the deals weren’t making all involved great revenue then these broadcasters wouldn’t be extending their deals and buying more content. Globosat recently extended their UFC deal to the year 2024. the Globo deals revenue amount has been steadily increasing. FOX has been purchasing more and more content to fill out their sports channels (UFC From All Angles, the UFC Ultimate series, Best of WEC, UFC Fight Flashback, etc. and FOX even created their own series titled UFC 1 on 1) the president of Sands China revealed at a press conference that the Franklin vs Le fight did 100 million+ viewers across Asia. Asia wants more prime-time events which is why the UFC just did an over the air broadcast deal in Japan with TV Tokyo to air, live and in prime-time, the UFC Fight Night Japan event. theyve just done another deal with BT Sports so they can air even more Fight Night events. they just did deals with Channel 4,TV3, Red Uno, Telefuturo, Televisa (theyre gearing up for an Ultimate Fighter: Latin America) Abu Dhabi Media (theyre gearing up for an Ultimate Fighter: Middle East) Liaoning Satellite TV (theyre gearing up for a second edition of Ultimate Fighter: China season 2) and much MUCH more. if these ventures werent successful then the UFC would not be creating these Ultimate Fighter series and ( with the Ultimate Fighter they partner with a network/channel for funding of the program) these over-the-air broadcast and cable/subscription tv deals would not even exist.
The UFC has done an amazing job in diversifying their revenue streams and it gives them the ability to ride out down-cycles in the PPV business.
With that said, I’m sure Dana would rather do big PPV numbers than small ones but Truth is right that it’s the total buys in a year that matter most, and not necessarily the average buys (to a degree – obviously you don’t want to be losing money on shows, and even if it broke even UFC 174 has to be seen as a failure). Part of the strategy of being on Spike and Fox is to raise the UFCs brand awareness and drive PPV buys. The roughly $100M/year that Fox is paying certainly sweetens the deal but you have to believe that Zuffa was hoping that viewership would increase over what they were doing in Spike and PPV buys along with it – neither of which happened.
However, while that hasn’t worked out exactly as planned, the UFC has proven it’s worth to Fox – they pretty much get the highest ratings of any content on that channel – which puts them in a strong position to do more TV deals if they so choose.
The PPV business is in a lull but will pick up eventually, as new fighters gain popularity (Weidmann is on his way, I think Cormier has potential, Velasquez just needs to stay consistently healthy and the Rousey-Cyborg fight will probably do well whenever that happens). I think if you put all of those fights on one card (UFC 200?) you could break 1M buys – but it may be more profitable to have 3 or 4 cards of 500k each instead.
From a fan’s perspective, oversaturation just means being forced to pay for something you were getting on Fox, Spike, HBO of Showtime. So in that sense, yes, I don’t want to pay for cards like UFC 174 and Canelo-Lara and hence the market is oversaturated. But the fact that promotions think they can make more money putting cards with that level of quality on PPV rather than TV (whether network or premium) suggests that the promotions have a different threshold for determining oversaturation.
It’s tough to see while you’re in it. We probably won’t answer the saturation question until after the fact. But saturation aside, it certainly doesn’t help the PPV business that GSP is retired, Silva is injured and likely past his prime, Velasquez is injured, Jones is not very likeable, Manny is definitely past his prime, and Canelo doesn’t have a title to defend.
Sal, you are a fucking idiot once again. There was no double talk. I pointed out that they were getting more revenue from other sources that doesn’t mean they are getting less ppv buys. We are less than 7 months into this year and this is your litmus test? PPV buys were up in 2013 from 2012. Did that mean they were gaining millions in buys from 2012? So far this year they are down and they seem like they will do less buys this year from last. I don’t see how that means they have lost “millions” of buys. You are talking out of your ass once again mullet boy. One of the biggest reasons for that is they lost their two biggest draws.
My numbers are guesses? Nope. They have had their debt rated by Moody’s and S & P. They audited their books. They came to those conclusions. The only way this could be false is if they were cooking their books and that would be very criminal and not worth the risk of lying, especially considering the Fertittas have something to fall back on with their Station Casinos.
Froch-Groves 2 > UFC 175
Ahahahahahaha! May weather says,”I don’t even know who he is.” (Referring to Rondo Rouso)
http://www.boxingscene.com/mayweather-on-ronda-rousey-i-dont-know-who-he—79957
Replays of TUF>Froch Groves II
Yeah, Mayweather only knows the names of woman he CAN beat, like his girlfriend.
So sad that Pink Pig Dana needs to always find a way to drag boxing into his UFC marketing scheme since he’s so desperate to peddle his caca product.
Sampson/Topps likes to roll around in his own shit.
“Yeah, Mayweather only knows the names of women he CAN beat, like his girlfriend.”
That’s my front runner for post of the year.
Appreciate it.
Yeah… Dip Shit is SO original. Lame ass UFC fans…
Topps/Sampson, is that you in there? Hahaha.
I agree. But not with the whole thing.