Loretta Hunt of Sherdog recently interviewed Ken Hershman, vice-president of Showtime sports and event programming, to discuss Showtime’s relationship with Strikeforce. The entire article is an interesting read, but nothing more so than the following talk about television production.
“The business objective there is to sell pay-per-views and they use Spike TV as a vehicle. They’re not doing it because they love the fans,” Hershman said. “We’re doing our events as individual, high-production level shows that can stand alone, and if we have 20 fights (in one night), it will get watered down.”
It’s obvious that Hershman prides himself on the quality of the Showtime broadcasts.
“We bring to this sport a level of production quality that’s second to none,” he said. “I defy anybody to watch our show next to anybody else’s shows from a production, lighting, directing, announcing standpoint and say that ours isn’t, by far, the best.”
Payout Perspective:
I mean no disrespect whatsoever, but have we entered the twilight zone? This must be the week of all weeks for outlandish statements in MMA. First, Dana White tells Bill Simmons of ESPN’s BS Report that MMA blogs are on the take to rig MMA fighter rankings. Now, Ken Hershman is defying everyone to say that Showtime’s production isn’t the best.
Let’s look at this objectively:
1.) All of these “goofy” people covering MMA on the internet do so because they love the sport. It’s absolutely absurd to suggest that a.) in this economic and MMA landscape, promotions are taking money out of their limited budgets to pay people off for something as trivial as fighter rankings (that only hardcores pay attention to in the first place), and b.) that whatever small sum of money or swag they could muster would even make a difference to people that are doing this for fun. There might be a few people influenced by money or a t-shirt, but I have a really hard time believing that the entire MMA blogosphere is on the take.
2.) The UFC’s production is far superior to that of Showtime or any other MMA organization (edit: it’s a little closer in Japan) when taking into consideration criteria like camera angles, camera switching, commentary, lighting, and conveying crowd experience. The UFC has a wealth of experience that gives its camera team an edge in providing the best looks at the action (not just angles, but unimpeded views through timely camera switching – something that Showtime does very poorly). Mike Goldberg and Joe Rogan, while maligned in some circles, are far better at describing the action and conveying excitement than any other announce crew (Gus Johnson and Mauro Ranallo need some serious work). Moreover, from a lighting and crowd experience perspective, the UFC, again, has created a template through years of trial and error that brings the fights to life better than anyone else.
I think we all get that part of being a promoter is making outlandish claims that become fodder for the press – I’m reminded of the saying “start worrying when they stop talking” – but sometimes it’s only right to push back a little bit.
“The UFC’s production is far superior to that of Showtime or any other MMA organization when taking into consideration criteria like camera angles, camera switching, commentary, lighting, and conveying crowd experience. ” After watching the last Dream event I would beg to differ. Hershman, Showtime, and Strikeforce would do themselves and their audience a big favor if they tried to imitate their Japanese partner’s aesthetic a little more.
As for Dana and the P4P list, how can he say Shields isn’t deserving? He’s not only beaten top fighters in two weight classes, but also has defeated Mike Pyle, Carlos Condit, Yushin Okami, Paul Daley, and Dan Henderson making him 5-0 with current or very recent UFC fighters. If he had these same victories in the UFC Dana would be harping about how he was a top 5 p4p fighter.
Oh, wait Dana is a promoter Now I get it. Although the payoff accusation was feeble.
John S., remember that filming fights in a cage versus in a ring is an entirely different beast, as the fence and 8 posts (as opposed to thin ropes and 4 corners) obstructs potential camera views far more.
As for Showtime’s MMA production values, I am probably the biggest critic I’ve seen in any forum. A Showtime/CBS production of a Strikeforce event is simply awful when compared to a Zuffa production. I assure you, I am not an exclusive Zuffa fanboy, I just call it like I see it. The commentary is probably the worst aspect, and it’s just sad because there are better personnel available (Trigg/Glazer comes to mind, say what you want about them but nothing stinks quite as poignantly as the commentary from the Gus Johnson/Mauro Renallo/(sadly) Frank Shamrock team. The camera work is lacking in comparison, but not to the point where it is a major problem in my opinion. The biggest problems are the timing/pace of the events, the inexplicable ludicrousness that Showtime/CBS do not show any preliminary fights with plenty of time left on broadcasts, and finicky issues like the fight clock disappearing at random during fights (this may seem trivial, but it would be so easy to fix it just boggles my mind that whoever is in charge of these things even has a job).
What’s worse is the way that these deficiencies in the production value translate to the live event experience. Bad news for CBS/Showtime/Strikeforce, because this is one of the areas in which Zuffa really shines. A Strikeforce live show is run around the demands of the television broadcast, and it is obvious that the company’s cares for the live audience are a distant, distant second. Having been to these shows, I can tell you there is almost no communication with the audience about the events’ pace and timing, while Zuffa makes sure to inform the audience in the arena how much time you may have to wait after each fight, and they’re usually pretty dead on with their estimates. At Zuffa shows they show prelim fights on the big screens in between fights, which at the very least gives the audience something to look at in the time between bouts, even if it is footage of a fight that was seen earlier in the evening (I actually enjoy watching a fight I’ve seen live on the big screen shortly afterward – gives you a different perspective).
Don’t get me wrong, I am a fan of the Strikeforce organization and Scott Coker, but the lack of quality (or a hint of noticeable improvement) in the CBS/Showtime production may hinder them in the long run. After Strikeforce: Nashville I vowed never again to introduce anyone to MMA via a Showtime/CBS MMA broadcast, as I sadly watched my jaded friends and neighbors file out my door angry that I had wasted prime time hours of their Saturday night they worked so hard for all week to enjoy. I apologized profusely and didn’t even bother with the “it’s usually not like this…” excuse because ultimately, I knew that they wouldn’t try it out again for a long, long time. Interestingly enough, almost none of their complaints were not about the quality of the fights, but rather about the show.
The experience left me embarrassed, and as for Hershman, I say if that is his REAL opinion then I question whether the man has actually sat down and committed a few hours of his life to experiencing his own product.
Ken Herschman in the above referenced article:
“We bring to this sport a level of production quality that’s second to none,” he said. “I defy anybody to watch our shows next to anybody else’s shows from a production, lighting, directing, announcing standpoint and say that ours isn’t, by far, the best.”
Hilarious. I consider myself thoroughly defied.
The SF production is a glass 1/3 full thing. The 4 parts that are empty are the announce team, the music, enterances and squeezing in the preliminary fights.
The announce team just isn’t cutting it at all. That is unfortunate because they can make every thing else look bad whether it is or not. Let me be clear Frank should never be allowed near a mike again while a sporting event is going on. There is nothing about Gus that says MMA.
Every one knows the problem with the music.
The entrances have a real trailer park feel to them. Either step them up like they do at FEG events or get rid of the production part like the UFC does. I would prefer the FEG route. But staying half way is the worst of all worlds.
The most disappointing part of the story to me is that Showtime doesn’t seem to be interested in airing the prelim fights. The WEC and the UFN shows both do it so I really don’t see why this is rocket science to Showtime.
As far as the camera work and lighting it has been getting better every show and there were plenty of shots during the HA show that I thought looked better than the usual UFC shots and lighting.
Unfortunately the announcers stink it up so bad that people are left thinking that the announce team sucks, the camera work sucks, the lighting sucks, the parking attendants suck, the city sucks, the world sucks and the universe sucks.
One thing we all need to keep in mind as well is that you can’t expect as much when you are paying $15 for 1.5 fights a month with movies etc included and the show seats are $30 -$70. That is like buying a Mustang and then complaining that it doesn’t have a carbon fiber chassis and a 570hp aluminium v12. But some of these things are cheap fixes and those I would like to see fixed.
But, Machiel Van, the last Dream card was not in a ring but in the White Cage. In fact, the two White Cage events have been two of their best productions.
Regarding the other Showtime production problems:
1) The commentating is atrocious, Everyone knows this. Hopefully they’ll eventually see the light and can the current crew and bring in Miletich, Trigg, and/or the Voice to save the shows.
2) The prelims are aired – they’re called Challengers. Strikeforce really has no fighters fighting on the prelims. Those are local fighters placed there to save on payout and help draw attendance. There is no point for Showtime to spend time and money filming and broadcasting fighters that may never appear again on a Showtime card. Strikeforce’s reasons are even more understandable – they receive an extra $300,000 for the Challenger cards from Showtime. It makes a lot more sense for them to remove a $100,000 in payroll from a card and move it to another night where they’ll get paid $300,000 to air them. Might suck for us fans used to extra fights, but I can’t blame Strikeforce for going this route.
3) Overall production. They could do with a new TD. Someone who could make better choices on angles and timing. Since they can’t and won’t fill in empty time with prelim fights, I would like to see them steal a page from Dream and put on 2-3 minute video promos of the up and coming fights and fighters. This would also be a great way to introduce fans to the lesser known fighters on the Strikeforce roster. Fighters whose histories might not be as familiar to fans since they haven’t seen them in the UFC.
John S. – good point about the cage. I enjoy DREAM shows but I watch them live on HD Net so maybe I am too tired during their time slots (tend to be from 12:00-4:00 a.m.) to notice the polish of the production. I’ve always loved the overall production of Japanese MMA shows though. I will forever think that PRIDE trumped the UFC in regards to the spectacle and experience of the event, which DREAM has successfully mimicked, though on a smaller scale. I wish MMA was still healthy enough in the Japanese market to put on some of those shows at huge venues like the Tokyo Dome with huge audiences (Dynamite!! not withstanding).
On thing I must comment on:
“I will tell you that just like any television network, whether it’s a scripted show, whether it’s a sport event — nobody takes just what’s given to them.”
I will say that is bunk. When it comes time to renew, the studios will comment on things, but I know of at least two different producers that do not have their content changed by, or make changes at the request of, the channel they are on.
Anyone think that HBO told David Simon what THE WIRE should have been?
“The UFC’s production is far superior to that of Showtime or any other MMA organization when taking into consideration criteria like camera angles, camera switching, commentary, lighting, and conveying crowd experience.”
I’m sorry but this is just false. Japanese MMA promotions have had much higher production value’s for a very long time. The UFC spends as little money possible on production (which is evident by the constant ppv broadcast issues, usually one per event or more). The UFC is JUST starting to phase out some of those antiquated aspects of their productions, but they have a way to go yet. The tale of the tape music makes me wonder what the hell anyone was thinking when they put that in there. A Capella opera rumpa pum pum–genius, just what the fighting crowds want. Or do you mean production value in the sense that the UFC can squeeze an advertisement onto everything possible? How long until this spit bucket is brought to you by Xience?
Also the Japanese camera work has always been amazing and greatly surpasses that of the UFC. The slow motion replays are of considerably higher quality and the sheer amount of cameras that they use dwarfs the angles provided by the UFC. The camera men are also very talented in providing close up shots of the action, something we _never_ see at all in the UFC.
Michael Schiavello has been providing enthusiastic high quality commentary and the technical striking aspects he explains are unrivaled by any other commentator except for Joe Rogan on intricate Jiu Jitsu technique.
Something the UFC definitely deserves credit for is the formula to keep the fights moving. The Asian promotions tend to focus a little too much on the stuff in between the fights. However I think there is room for a good compromise between the 2 styles.
Sure the UFC’s production is better than that provided by Strikeforce but not by any means does that imply that it automatically trumps all MMA productions. They all need to stop declaring themselves the best and start copying what each other is good at to provide a superior product.
JJ,
I was referring to those in North America (although I apologize for not stating that outright). Still, I would assert the UFC’s production is still better than anything in Japan.
Let’s take a look:
– They spend as little money as possible? I’d estimate it costs upwards of $1 million or more to put together one of their PPV broadcasts (and they do not have the luxury of a cable company footing that bill).
– I’m a keen observer of their broadcasts – keener than most – and it would be inaccurate to say they have one fuck-up or more per event. Unless you’re talking minor hiccups, to which point I’d suggest you watch an NFL broadcast to see how many blunders happen there (not to mention mistakes on a Dream or Pride card).
– The tale of the tape music is a cultural play on the old UFC theme from 1993.
– I never mentioned advertising as part of the production criteria, but I have a hard time blaming them for the ubiquitous advertisements and sponsorships when I take into consideration that those have become a material revenue stream for a company seeking rapid and extensive global expansion (all bent on giving you, the fan, more MMA).
– In response to the camera critique: I’m not sure what you’d like them to do in terms of close ups with the cage in the way. In fact, this was one of the biggest issues I had with my former camera crew: they had a tendency to shoot too close which often doesn’t provide enough context to the action. It’s a balancing act. Still the UFC does an excellent job of providing an unimpeded view of the action and I’d encourage you to check out a PPV or Spike event in HD, if you ever get the chance.
– I’m not a part of the convert wrestling fan base that wants my announce team to sound like Jim Ross, but I’ll agree that Schiavello is respected (although I tend to think it’s for the wrong reasons). Still, the point still stands that Mike and Joe are the best tandem in the business.
Thanks for your contribution.
Kelsey
For what it’s worth… I’m agreeing with Kelsey 100% on this one.
I am not sure what qualifies all of you to comment on camera angles, lighting and the differences between ring v cage; zuffa v. anyone… but you all sound ridiculous in your assertions about tv production. Have any of you ever worked in live tv production? Not talking about your 101 communications course at The “U” either.
One thing that stood out for me the first time I saw MFC on HDNet was that they had superior production values to Strikeforce. In fact, I’d say in general HDNet puts better production into their showcased live events than Strikeforce and Showtime.
Great conversation. I am always fascinated by the FEG productions, particularly K-1 and MAX. Their use of graphics is way ahead of anything I’ve seen in the US. I am still awed by the way they projected the lineup (and a galaxy of stars) onto the roof on a venue last year. Thats not to mention the awesome video packages by Dai.
The Gus thing baffles me. He’s so good during the NCAA tournament, and he’s also very good when he does boxing. For some reason when he does MMA he tries to pretend he’s Goldberg or an announcer from the WWE. It’s over the top and often it’s wrong. His boxing commentary is much more Lampleyesque (Lampley is the Gold Standard for fight sports commentary as far as I’m concerned.) I think Gus has potential, but he’s in a very crowded booth – Gus and Mauro together are basically doppelgangers and Frank should be fired outright. If you are going to have three people in the booth you need three distinct roles and personalities.
Guys like Schiavello and Bob Sheridan bring a different feel to the booth. It can put some people off, but I personally like it.
Chris, you are correct. I don’t work in television production, but in post production so I will refrain from critiquing their presentations.
John S., don’t back down from the “how dare we” comment. Chris, as consumers we can cartainly comment on the things we find annoying when we experience an MMA broadcast on television, we don’t need to be in the business of television production to see production flaws that are blatantly projected from our displays. When a camera angle that is utilized that fails to capture the action of a fight, this failure is translated to us through the broadcast and is incredibly obvious as all you have to do is… well, KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN. I feel very qualified as a consumer when it comes to commenting on my experiences viewing MMA fights on TV because I HAVE SEEN THOUSANDS OF THEM. I don’t pretend I could personally do a better job, but at the same time, IT IS NOT MY JOB. Comments on areas of a TV broadcast that annoy you and detract from your experience as a consumer are perfectly valid, and is part of what these companies should pay attention to. I suppose you think the general public should refrain from commenting on politics as well since we’re not politicians? Give me a break.
Machiel Van, apparently my attempt at sarcasm failed. Since I do work in the entertainment industry, but am part of the post production phase instead of production.
Heh heh, sorry didn’t catch it the first read.
I guess my blood runs hot when discussing Showtime’s MMA production. Damn you for causing me sink to the level of throwing out these trivial barbs, Herschman…
Biggest techincal difference in shooting the cage is the use of the jib. DREAM and HDNet use it to cover the cage as the main cam. I think it makes a big difference.
No question in my mind that the Japanese broadcast TV events have larger production budgets than anything in US.
The Director picks the angles not the TD. Thats the technical director who physically makes the switches etc happen.
Anthony, the director will call out or pick the angle he wants, but the TD does the actual switching. The reason I called for the new TD is because every switch to a new angle in Strikeforce seems slightly late and sloppy so I’m laying that on the TD. I also called for someone (probably a producer, but it could also be the director. I don’t know how Showtime’s live television broadcasts are managed) new to handle the actual timing of the show. Time management on all the Showtime and CBS cards seems horrible, with little thought spent to when promos, interviews, and fights should be placed.
Anthony, the director will call out or pick the angle he wants, but the TD does the actual switching. The reason I called for the new TD is because every switch to a new angle in Strikeforce seems slightly late and sloppy so I’m laying that on the TD. I also called for someone (probably a producer, but it could also be the director. I don’t know how Showtime’s live television broadcasts are managed) new to handle the actual timing of the show. Time management on all the Showtime and CBS cards seems horrible, with little thought spent to when promos, interviews, and fights should be placed.
I am the director of all UFC live shows since UFC 28 and Yes the TD does the switching and he is right on the mark, Thats how i trained him. He’s my guy and knows my style so well that he actually directs the WEC. Its really a team effort and all facets of the team need to work together from the Zuffa production executives down to the PA that makes our show work. As far as Showtime is concerned out of proffessional courtesy I will refrain from commenting.
…and I am the TD of the UFC.
Anthony is correct. Our shows work because of a total team effort. There is no other sport similar to MMA when it comes to how production is handled. It is faster and much more involved than most sports (including other combat sports). Our team is comprised of the very best people in all positions, and that is the primary reason we are successful.
The two of you will notice that I did not criticize the UFC, WEC, or Dream. In fact, show production wise, you guys are the gold standard.
I will compliment Showtime on one aspect that I think is superior to you guys (although you two probably can’t be blamed for this): the show opening. The two CBS openings have been amazing. If the Zuffa product could get rid of the Gladiator/ Nu Metal and give us the “What Makes a Champion?” opening we got on the last CBS card, I would be a very happy camper.
Seems very unlikely those two people would be commenting on this site… Probably just looked up their names.
If they are who they say they are than it’s interesting that Zuffa personnel read this site. Very interesting.
MV,
I can verify their authenticity. You’d be surprised who reads this website.
I sometimes think people forget that most people that work in the industry are fans, too, and they read the blogs just like everyone else.
Kelsey
We are who we say we are. We are also very big fans of the sport. We read we watch and we learn the sport on a constant basis, that is one reason why our production is what it is, we all KNOW the sport. We are not Zuffa staff. Remember that no matter what is said about MMA many people will report it as Ultimate Fighting. The UFC gets the rap usually good or bad to the new viewers who don’t know the diffrence between the promotions. I saw an article on Yahoo takling about the black eye Ultimate Fighting got when the Diaz brothers and Mayhem Miller went at it at the end of the Jake Sheilds fight, so from a market awareness standpoint its smart business to watch what everybody is doing.
I have worked in combat sports for over 20 years and its great to work for passionate people who really care about the sport and the production. People who are constantly saying how can we be better, whats the next big thing, how can we bring our coverage to the next level. They constantly challange us. Thats what keeps everybody fresh and striving to be the best. Zuffa will always strive to be the best, because thats who they are. Take Dana, as insanely busy as his schedule is he STILL takes the time to personnaly approve many creative elements of each and every show. What other president does that? That type of dedication & passion throughtout the ranks shows up on the screen.
It’s good to know people at high levels in the industry read websites like this. I guess I just assumed with the usual nature of the “MMA blogosphere” (fickle fans posting offensive rants) that most people in the industry would just avoid it. Thanks guys, keep up the good work and sorry for being skeptical.