ESPN reports the PPV rate for the rematch between Manny Pacquiao and Timothy Bradley received between 750,000 and 800,000 buys. The estimated buy rate was a “disappointment” according to Top Rank promoter Bob Arum.
The ESPN article noted that HBO did not produce a formal release but did confirm that the event generated $49 million in gross PPV revenue. Arum cited the “absence of [a] Mexican or Hispanic opponent” and the lack of support for Timothy Bradley from the African American community as contributing reasons for the porous PPV numbers.
Although the PPV buy rate would be good for a big UFC event, it’s the second disappointing outing for one of boxing’s biggest PPV draws. Pacquiao’s November fight with Brandon Rios drew just 475,000 buys. Even in a rematch with some interesting storylines, the fight failed to outdraw their initial fight in June 201. PacBradley I received 890,000 PPV buys.
Arum indicated a return to Macau, China for Pacquiao’s next fight due in part to “huge site fees” and the potential to launch PPV in China which would bolster the sagging domestic PPV revenue.
Payout Perspective:
Could this be the last even Pacquiao fights in the U.S.? With the second consecutive disappointing PPV buy rate from Pacquiao, it appears that Top Rank will focus on the international market and other revenue streams rather than depend on domestic PPV. Last November’s Macau event faced many logistical issues including the fight taking place Sunday morning due to the time difference and did not draw well here in America. If Top Rank focuses on the international market, would it still cater to America with its start time? We will see if this is just talk or if Top Rank will really follow through with having Pacquiao fight outside the U.S.
I’m not surprised. Manny dominated Bradley in their first fight and there would have been no talk of a rematch if the judging hadn’t been so horrific. I don’t agree that the storylines are interesting – the rematch was made after Bradley got pounded by Provodnikov and won a narrow decision against Marquez, while Manny got KOd by Marquez and won an easy decision against Rios. Not exactly scintillating stuff, and nothing that would lead me to believe that the second fight would go differently than the first.
Still, it’s a sign of Manny’s drawing power that he can still pull 800k PPV buys against a guy who is not a PPV draw.
I would be interested in another fight with Marquez, but I wonder how many others would. Marquez lost to Bradley (and then complained about it as he always does) and now he’s fighting Alvarado – a guy I like, but who isn’t at the top level. Again, not exactly a scintillating storyline.
I think he’s too big (and fights for Golden Boy) but a fight against Canelo would probably do very well in PPVs.
“Although the PPV buy rate would be good for a big UFC event, it’s the second disappointing outing for one of boxing’s biggest PPV draws.” – The Truth and Nothing But
Sampson you are an idiot.
Who has generated more buys annually for the past 7 years HBO/Showtime boxing ppvs or UFC ppvs? That’s right it is the UFC. And don’t give me the UFC has more ppvs bullshit because if boxing could do 10-12 ppvs per year that drew a bottom number of 200k buys plus, they would be doing them. The problem is boxing only has 2 A fighters that can draw a big ppv and they are both close to retirement. Look at how frequently boxing ppvs get cancelled. Don’t you realize it is because the gate fails miserably and they know no one will it? Remember Broner-Maidana? Haha. Not only did the ppv get cancelled, they had to move the fight from Vegas just so they wouldn’t take a massive financial loss. I remember Arum was thrilled that Bradley-Marquez did 375k buys. Do you know how many UFCs did 375k with lesser known stars? A lot. Also, Paquaio turned into less of a draw than St Pierre was. His buyrates were significantly lower the Georges’s and he was number 2 in boxing. The only one outdrawing the top ufc ppvs is Mayweather.
You are just another ignorant boxing fanboy who doesn’t understand either sport.
D,
St. Pierre is retired. Who is left in the UFC who can pull 750-800K buys? No one. And actually, GSP is not a bigger draw than Manny. He only did 630 against Hendricks, so if anything both fighters are similar draws.
Diego, Chuck Liddell, Matt Hughes, Randy Couture, Tito Ortiz are all either retired or left the company. We’ve heard this line before. The difference between this and boxing though, is the fact that the younger generation of fight fans are paying to watch mma more so than boxing. So when the boxers retire, it will be harder to replace their stars, whereas it will be easy to replace the mma fighters. Going to be really funny by 2016 when Pac, and Mayweather retire what happens to boxing ppvs bu rates. By the way, watch and see what the Jones-Gustaffson II fight does ppv wise and then we will talk. I bet you anything it hits close to 700k. Not to mention the Weidman-Machida/Rousey ppv will do easily over 500k.
It may take another year to get someone to be doing another ufc that does around 900k buys, but it will happen. It is the business cycle. Keep in mind guys like Anderson Silva and Georges St Pierre took years to build up to big time ppv status.
The only reason why GSP-Hendricks only did 630k buys was because Hendricks was a no namer to the casual fan. We saw what Pac did against a similar no namer in Rios….475k. GSP Diaz did 925k buys much better than Pac-Bradley II.
Mayweather-Alvarez did 2.2 million buys at $75.
Do the math UFC zombie…
d= brainsmasher
Mayweather is the only one in boxing that can break 1m ppv buys these days. No one else comes anywhere close. The UFC can sell ppv after ppv with no name headliners and still break 200k a pop, along with having their big name draws hit close to or over a million from time to time. The figures are listed under ppv for the ufc’s annual buys. Why don’t you do the math and see what sport is generating more money annually from its top promoters/distributors? It isn’t even close boxing fanboy.
What are you talking about? Canelo vs Angulo did 350k, Marquez vs Bradley did 375k. Cotto vs Martinez will do 500k. None of the people I mentioned are called Pac or Mayweather fanboy. These guys arent even Champs and there numbers are on par with your greatest Champ ever Jon Jones. pathetic.
Fightbusiness, what are you talking about? Making shit up? How is Jon Jones the greatest Champ ever? He was never the no.1 draw in mma, nor was or is he the no.1 fighter in mma. Think about this genius, since you like cherry picking stats, Andre Ward is the no.2 p4p boxer, no one who has seen him fight would debate that, the guy is unbelievable. How many ppv’s has he sold? Oh yeah, ZERO!!!! You can’t just go by what the fighter’s ranking is. It just depends on who sells.
There were 10 ufc ppvs last year that exceeded 300k buys. Let me know when boxing can come anywhere near that. Of those 10, 6 did over 450k buys, so 6 ppvs that the ufc did outdrew the Canelo-Angulo, Marquez-Bradley fights. Not to mention the ufc also did a ppv that exceeded a million bys in December. You conveniently ignore that.
Talk about pathetic.
Rogan and dw said when dela Hoya retires boxing won’t have ppv buys over 1 million…hahaha
UFC= desperation…..
@Tops, amusing. The UFC is in desperation? Yeah, that is why they have a network deal and have owned the ppv industry for the past 7 years. Not to mention their merchandising deals destroy anything that boxing has. They generate way more revenue than Top Rank and GB do.
The difference from what you are saying about when De La Hoya retires is that now as opposed to years ago, we are seeing the 18-35 demographic drawing more interest into mma as opposed to boxing. Watch what happens when Mayweather and Pac retire. I’m not saying boxing will be dead, but there will be a major drop off of ppv revenue that will never be recouped. Think about this- 20 years ago, boxing controlled about 80% of the annual ppv event industry, now it is closer to 20%. And who is desperate? Maybe it is the boxing fanboys who are all over every mma blog trying to disparage the sport.
Crazy how the Boxing which was supposed to be swallowed years ago is still doing strong while the UFC is heading to Xgames/Poker stature.
I ain’t even mad though, I was a fan of MMA before Zuffa and I will be a fan after Baldy and his Mob Millionaires fuck off.
D. Jon Jones is a great fighter but I’m not saying He’s the Greatest ever I am just reiterating what a moderate amount of voices in MMA (Dana White, Chael Sonnen) have said. 2nd Andre Ward is not known because his division has good but no great fighters. A fight with him and Calzaghe( 3 years ago) or Hopkins (5 years ago) would do about 400-500k. Jones has legends in his division.
D- Regarding PPV, Boxing doesnt do that many PPV’s because HBO & Showtime are premium channels and need free content monthly which is good for the sport. Canelo is starting to do PPV’s against non marquee fighters which I hope stops because it is horrible for the sport. In terms of numbers one mega event in Boxing devours your little 400k numbers (Canelo vs Mayweather 2.5 million buys/ Pac vs Bradley 750k) Anyway future PPV stars include: Keith Thurman, Glovokin, Canelo, Adrian Broner (the Chael Sonnen of Boxing) and there’s always a sleeper. In terms of revenue one Mayweather event generates all the revenue Fox gives the UFC in one year. By the way UFC better be very leary of Glory Kickboxing. Those guys will be huge in 5 years.
Dana White never called Jones the biggest draw. For years, he called Silva the greatest of all time, up until he lost to Weidman the second fight which was in December. Most people think Jones lost to Gustafsson, and the majority of people who really know mma would say the p4p best fighter should be someone like Aldo, Barao, Johnson, the difference being that those guys are in lower weight classes that are no where near as popular as the main 5.
Regarding Andre Ward, no, that is not the primary reason why he is not the big draw that the ppv fighters are. It is because he lacks charisma, combined with the fact that he is a conservative fighter. He defeated guys who have headlined ppv fights like Carl Froch. So what does that say? Also to claim Ward would be doing 400-500k buys off of Calzaghe is ridiculous, and to bring up a legend from 5 years ago who would have been the A fighter on the ppv, is silly as well. Jones has legends in his division? Name a legend at 205 right now. You can’t. None of this makes any difference though considering what you said, because your point was that Jones was the p4p best(which isn’t even true) and he can’t sell a big ppv(which also isn’t true because he’s done a ppv that hit 700k), yet when I mention the 2nd biggest p4p boxer, you dismiss it which contradicts your entire argument.
Fightbusiness, you would like that to be the truth, but the reality is that is not the case. HBO/Showtime do not dictate terms to big name boxers/promoters. It is the other way around. In boxing unlike in mma, the promoters/distributors are less important than the boxers. What do you think would happen if HBO/Top Rank, Showtime/GB wouldn’t air a ppv and tried to force someone like Mayweather to fight on free tv? He would say the hell with you, and go and promote and distribute the ppv himself. He would lose some money, but not much. Boxing can’t sell ppvs like the UFC can. They can get a few big ones every year and maybe 1 or 2 mid ranged ones, but that is it. Look at all of the cancelled ppv boxing matches there have been over the years. Look at Broner-Maidana. They had to cancel the ppv and move the fight out of Vegas just so they wouldn’t lose money because the gate was way down and they were expecting the ppv to do less than 100k buys. Boxing can only sell with a few guys. The UFC can sell with tons. Also, you claim that HBO/Showtime needs free content. Uh, you do realize the UFC puts on 2-3x the amount of free shows that they do ppvs, right genius?
I find it amusing that you mock the UFC numbers, yet you ignore the fact that each of the last 7 years, the UFC has destroyed boxing in annual ppv buys and revenue. It isn’t even close. This will be the first time in years it will be close only because their two biggest stars aren’t fighting-if the reverse happened which will occur in 2 years most likely with Pac & Floyd, it is going to be much more of a drop off. Haha. Also, you keep ignoring the fact that despite the ufc spacing out their cards promotionally, they still managed to draw a million buy ppv(bigger than Pac) in December. They actually had 2 ppvs last year that outdrew every boxing ppv other than Canelo-Mayweather. Haha.
This is the most amusing part of your whole post: “Anyway future PPV stars include: Keith Thurman, Glovokin, Canelo, Adrian Broner (the Chael Sonnen of Boxing)” Okay, so first off, Adrian Broner loses tune up fights and his ppv’s get scrapped. Canelo is a legit ppv fighter, I wouldn’t go as far as saying he is going to turn out like Pac or Mayweather because keep in mind when he fought Mayweather he was the B fighter. His fight where he was the A he only did 350k buys, granted against a lesser known fighter. Thurman and Glovokin will never be ppv stars.
“In terms of revenue one Mayweather event generates all the revenue Fox gives the UFC in one year. By the way UFC better be very leary of Glory Kickboxing. Those guys will be huge in 5 years.”
No, you don’t add very well. The UFC gets 100m per year from FOX. Mayweather’s events generate no where near that other than his fight against Canelo. Of course, this also ignores the fact that the gate/ppv is split in half to the venue and the cable company. Plus you are talking ppv compared to free tv, whereas the UFC generates usually about 5x what Mayweather fights generate in a years. Not to mention that Mayweather fights bring in probably about 60-70% of what boxings annual ppv and major gate intake is, making that analogy ridiculous.
Fightbusiness, you would like that to be the truth, but the reality is that is not the case. HBO/Showtime do not dictate terms to big name boxers/promoters. It is the other way around. In boxing unlike in mma, the promoters/distributors are less important than the boxers. What do you think would happen if HBO/Top Rank, Showtime/GB wouldn’t air a ppv and tried to force someone like Mayweather to fight on free tv? He would say the hell with you, and go and promote and distribute the ppv himself. He would lose some money, but not much. Boxing can’t sell ppvs like the UFC can. They can get a few big ones every year and maybe 1 or 2 mid ranged ones, but that is it. Look at all of the cancelled ppv boxing matches there have been over the years. Look at Broner-Maidana. They had to cancel the ppv and move the fight out of Vegas just so they wouldn’t lose money because the gate was way down and they were expecting the ppv to do less than 100k buys. Boxing can only sell with a few guys. The UFC can sell with tons. Also, you claim that HBO/Showtime needs free content. Uh, you do realize the UFC puts on 2-3x the amount of free shows that they do ppvs, right genius?
I find it amusing that you mock the UFC numbers, yet you ignore the fact that each of the last 7 years, the UFC has destroyed boxing in annual ppv buys and revenue. It isn’t even close. This will be the first time in years it will be close only because their two biggest stars aren’t fighting-if the reverse happened which will occur in 2 years most likely with Pac & Floyd, it is going to be much more of a drop off. Haha. Also, you keep ignoring the fact that despite the ufc spacing out their cards promotionally, they still managed to draw a million buy ppv(bigger than Pac) in December. They actually had 2 ppvs last year that outdrew every boxing ppv other than Canelo-Mayweather. Haha.
This is the most amusing part of your whole post: “Anyway future PPV stars include: Keith Thurman, Glovokin, Canelo, Adrian Broner (the Chael Sonnen of Boxing)” Okay, so first off, Adrian Broner loses tune up fights and his ppv’s get scrapped. Canelo is a legit ppv fighter, I wouldn’t go as far as saying he is going to turn out like Pac or Mayweather because keep in mind when he fought Mayweather he was the B fighter. His fight where he was the A he only did 350k buys, granted against a lesser known fighter. Thurman and Glovokin will never be ppv stars.
“In terms of revenue one Mayweather event generates all the revenue Fox gives the UFC in one year. By the way UFC better be very leary of Glory Kickboxing. Those guys will be huge in 5 years.”
No, you don’t add very well. The UFC gets 100m per year from FOX. Mayweather’s events generate no where near that other than his fight against Canelo. Of course, this also ignores the fact that the gate/ppv is split in half to the venue and the cable company. Plus you are talking ppv compared to free tv, whereas the UFC generates usually about 5x what Mayweather fights generate in a years. Not to mention that Mayweather fights bring in probably about 60-70% of what boxings annual ppv and major gate intake is, making that analogy ridiculous.
Yeah Glory Kickboxing is going to be huge, just like K1 was.
D = Dana White’s crab
Somebody… ANYbody tell me how the UFC plans to pay off their $600 million debt?
Seriously
Sampson = Bob Arum’s scabs.
Haha. Well Mr. Sampson, you aren’t very aware of how debt works. They may have 500 in liabilities, but they have about 4 billion in assets. The debt is closer to 500million. You conveniently ignore they are using that money for expansion, it isn’t as if that was losses, etc. Plus, the interest rate was at an all time low when they took out the loans. They also generate over 500m in revenue annually. Let me know when Showtime Boxing/GB and HBO Boxing/Top Rank do that.
Maybe you can tell me something, why is it that a twat like you and all of these boxing fanboys love hanging out on the mma websites? You almost never see the opposite. Go on the boxing blogs, how frequently do you see the reverse happen? Very rarely. It is the boxing fruit cakes all over mma blogs because they are so threatened by mma’s gradual control over the market share.
Oh and Sampson, I hate Dana White. I would love to see either Bellator or another company take the reigns.
Damn D, what is up with the freaking essays? are you trying to major in ‘web commenting’ or something?
Mma’s gradual control? Hahaha..
Is it the same as it would be bigger than soccer of yesteryears.dw ship is sinking these past few ufc promotions they mention mayweather,revived chuck lidell vs jones etc…brock lesnar…gina carano..but not talk about the fighters on the card…pathetic….
Long essays = cry for help…sinking ship
D- What legends does 205 have? Dan Henderson, if he wanted to stay Lyota Machida, Rashad Evans, Vitor Belfort and a slew of good marketable fighters: Phil Davis, Cormier, the walking billboard Sonnen, Anthony Johnson. The dude has a ton of options and he still cant draw shit. The only marquee guy Ward fought was Froach and he’s not big in America. If he fought Chavez, Triple G, Stevenson, Hopkins trust me he would do at least 600k per ppv. His management has been horrible which is why he is trying to fire them. Give that dude Al haymon and you just found Boxing’s next ppv mega star who would urinate on the UFC. I like the UFC. I just hate politically correct Dana White. By the way their Fox numbers on basic cable are frightenly mediocre. Its averaging about 700k per show and its on basic cable. By the way boxing should get into merchandising a little bit more but its much more difficult because people dont want to get punched in the face. In MMA you can grapple a lot so more people can do it. Also Boxing doesnt have all its stars under one roof like the UFC. They are always bouncing around. The UFC markets its name not its stars. Boxing isnt centralized. Hence the bigger paychecks.
Haha. Dan Henderson is a blown up middleweight, barely ranked in the top 10 and Jon Jones has never defeated him. Thus, making your whole point senseless. Machida, Evans, Belfort are good fighters, but no where near legends. Of course using Evans contradicts your argument, seeing how when Jones fought Evans, he did 700k buys. Davis was exposed for the 1 dimensional fighter after his last bout, not to mention again Jones did not defeat him, Cormier has yet to fight Jones as well, Johnson is a very overrated fighter along with Sonnen who Jones has yet to fight which makes none of this relevant. Jones can draw shit? He isn’t a huge draw, but he has been the A fighter in a ppv that hit 700k, and I bet you anything he does another 700k buy ppv when he fights Gustafsson again. That is better than every boxer not named Mayweather and barely Pac these days. Of course, this makes sense seeing how Jones is not the biggest draw in mma, Weidman probably is now, by default of GSP/Silva not fighting. Again, wait until the 2 biggest boxers retire and see what the drop off is there, it will be much worse than the UFC’s drop off.
Hopkins is 50 and if he fought Ward in a ppv, no one would buy it. I don’t trust you because I know you have no clue how ppv works. You also ignore the fact that Ward beat Dawson, who beat Hopkins. Based on your analysis, shouldn’t that have created Dawson as a ppv draw? Why didn’t that happen? If Ward fought Chavez Jr, they would probably do about 400-500k buys, because of Chavez Jr ONLY! Chavez would be the A on the ppv. Haha. GGG and Stevenson wouldn’t do anything ppv wise, that fight would get scrapped from ppv. Those guys can’t draw. If your argument was true, explain to me why Ward hasn’t headlined a ppv yet? You do realize he would make 3-4x more what he is making now if he could headline a major boxing ppv, right? The boxers and promoters prefer ppv. But if they can’t sell them, they don’t put the fights on ppv, because they could lose money by doing so.
The UFC numbers are mediocre? Not in the 18-35 range which is everything for sports promotions. Also, if you want to talk about mediocre numbers, look no further than the third biggest name in boxing Wlad Klitschko. What did he draw for his fight on ESPN which is basic cable? 468k viewers. For a major boxing title fight? Pathetic. Matt Brown outdrew that. Haha.
I have no idea what you are talking about with merchandising, that is incoherent.
You really have no clue what you are talking about when it comes down to any of this. I find this amazing because most of the basic information you are missing is provided on this website. The reason why headlining ppv boxers are making more money(notice I said headliners, because undercard and prelim fighters in boxing usually make dirt, usually less than ufc fighters), is because they co promote their own events typically. The one’s that do not, make much less.
Excuse me, Jones did fight Sonnen, which drew over 500k buys.
She is on her period… angry and full of nonsense.
Give it a week. It’ll pass
You shouldn’t use feminine pronouns to describe yourself, it is masochistic.
“The only reason why GSP-Hendricks only did 630k buys was because Hendricks was a no namer to the casual fan. We saw what Pac did against a similar no namer in Rios….475k. GSP Diaz did 925k buys much better than Pac-Bradley II.”
And before that he did 700k against Condit (worse that Pac-Bradley II).
And before that he did 800k against Shields (about the same as Pac-Bradley II).
So again, they’re similar draws. Except for the fact that Manny is still fighting.
“By the way UFC better be very leary of Glory Kickboxing. Those guys will be huge in 5 years.”
Highly unlikely. And even if it happens, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it will cut into the UFC’s revenues. The sports are often complementary rather than competitive (like College Football and the NFL).
Shields and Condit are no where near as big of a name as Bradley is in boxing. Plus, St Pierre never did a ppv that only drew 475k buys, so there is a major difference there. You also conveniently ignore the fact that as I pointed out, Diaz-St Pierre did 925k. That is a bigger number than Pac’s number and in boxing rematches like that usually draw very well.
Similar, yes, but still Pac’s numbers turned into a lower draw. They have drastically dropped since the dec and ko losses to Bradley and Marquez respectively. St. Pierre is semi retired, he probably will come back. Manny will probably retire in a year or two. It is pretty obvious if he loses another one, he will be done. Not that he couldn’t be competitive, but that he won’t want to fight unless he is on top.
D- Good lord you are a long winded creature. the fact that you make dumb comments like” LOL & haha really shows me what I’m up against. Its clear you are rooting for the UFC. Thats fine. Aside from Dana White I actually like the UFC and its fighters. What I am saying is Jon Jones has tons of talent and plenty of opposition yet the guy rarely breaks 350k which is pathetic. With all his options the guy should be doing at least 600k every fight. Cain Velasques also has options and he cant break 350k ppv’s. You mentioned Jose Aldo and all these other guys are good. They cant break 350k. I believe the UFC will simply be a popular niche sport. No Boxing is not niche. By the way all the PPV numbers you mentioned cannot be confirmed. Do you understand that? Boxing numbers are accurate because they come from publically traded companies. We have no idea what the UFC is really doing. Also K1 was HUGE oversees far bigger than MMA but was mismanaged. Now they have execs from the WWE on board. This time will be different.
The fact that you cherry pick figures to back up your misinformed and irrational argument goes to show me what kind of simpleton I’m up against.
I’m not rooting for the UFC. Just stating facts. I am obviously a bigger mma fan as you are a bigger boxing fan, but I could care less if the UFC succeeded. I would much rather see better behaved promoters like Bellator succeed than Zuffa.
Your statements are full of inaccuracies. First off, Jones rarely breaks 350k? I mean this is the most amusing thing about this and goes to show how much of an idiot you are because this entire website is dedicated to presenting the figures of these events. All you have to do is go to the top of the website and click on ppv under the blue book section. Here are Jones ppv results:
1. Jones vs. Shogun…….490k
2. Jones vs Jackson ……520k
3. Jones vs. Machida……480k
4. Jones vs. Evans……….700k
5. Jones vs. Belfort……….450k
6. Jones vs. Sonnen…….530k
7. Jones vs. Gustafsson..310k
8. Jones vs. Teixeira………350k
So judging by the actual numbers (that you didn’t bother to even look up which are right on this website which is dedicated to providing the numbers for mma events), it seems as if Jones rarely does under 450k buys. The only times he has drawn below that are when he fought unknowns to the casual fan. Watch what his numbers will be in the Gus rematch.
Not to mention, I pointed out Andre Ward has tons of talent and has fought opponents who have headlined ppv events, yet can’t sell a ppv himself and you dismiss it. If you are saying it is just because Jones has fought bigger names, then why is it JCC Jr./Sergio Martinez have headlined ppvs at middleweight? Uh oh. Sounds like you need to scramble for another argument.
Those lower weight guys can’t break 350k buys because they fight in weight classes in the UFC that did not even exist a few years ago and are not popular weights. But what is amusing is you act as if 350 is some horrible number, yet two big names in boxing like Marquez and Bradley could not even break 375k. Canelo as an A fighter in his second ppv only did 350k buys. He is a huge boxing star too. So comparing Aldo’s numbers to boxing’s is silly.
By the way, all the ppv numbers you mentioned cannot be confirmed. Do you understand that? Boxing numbers are not accurate because those publicly traded companies do not disclose their ppv buy rates. We have to rely on unbiased sources in both sports like Rafael and Meltzer to provide us relatively accurate information. Kind of like how Schaefer/Espinoza lied about Mayweather-Guerrero breaking 1m and Rafael pointing out their lies or Dana White’s mouthpiece Kevin Iole inflating their numbers and Meltzer bringing us down to reality.
Also, K1 was never bigger than mma, Pride was much bigger than K1 ever was. They used to sell out Saitama Arena and the Tokyo Dome. K1 never reached the level that Pride did. Nor were they ever anywhere near what the UFC is today if you were attempting to compare them to today standards.
Are you just ignorant or do you like to fabricate things?
You absolutely can confirm Boxing’s numbers because if the Presidemt of Showtime or HBO is on record as confirming a PPV number and they are caught lying to their investors and they are committing fraud. That is a real offense. Publically traded means the info is Public genius. Do you understand that? The UFC has no reliable sources. But I’ll give you meltzer. I do apologize for Jon Jone’s PPV number’s. He has been such a mediocre star thus far I forgot he got some occassional his when he was the B side but man the dude cant consistantly crack 700k and he’s supposed to be awesome with a deep pool of opponents to fight. same with Cain. By the way the Klitschko fight on ESPN wasnt even promoted. No one knew it was on. Aerola just fought this past weekend against another bum and it got over 940k viewers. The two guys were tomato cans. NBC also did some shows last year on Saturday afternoons with that Polish fighter it actually hit 3 millon views for a midday show. Anyway, i’m done.
HAHAHA!! No you can not confirm those numbers!! You act like CEO’s don’t lie all the time. If that was the case they would be public, they are not. Mocking me by calling me a genius? Okay, Mr. Wizard, since it is publicly disclosed, go get me the numbers with a source. You can’t! Why do you think there was such a back and forth debate about the Mayweather-Guerrero numbers? If they were public, there would be no debate, the numbers would be for anyone to see. Instead, we have to rely on a reputable 3rd party. Do you understand that? Wow! You got caught in a lie, and are still trying to lie. Just run away from this one.
HAHAHA!! “The UFC has no reliable sources. But I’ll give you meltzer.”
So, I guess they do have a reliable source. Do you even know what you are stating? My God!
Yeah, Jones numbers are so mediocre, they are better than everyone in boxing not named Pacqauio or Mayweather and Jones for years was the no.3 or 4 ppv star in mma. Again, just run away when you are dead wrong. Also, how was Jones on the B Side of all those? Against who? Most of those guys he fought were the B on the ppv. He was getting the full ppv rate and was the main marketed fighter, not those guys. Shogun, Jackson and maybe Evans would be the exceptions. And again, Andre Ward is a super star boxer who can’t even sell a ppv with talent around him. You ignored my point about Martinez and JCC Jr selling ppvs, why can’t Ward who also fights at MW- and don’t come back with the 168lbs vs 160lbs, those guys could make that weight.
Also, explain to me how Velasquez has a ton of talent around him. By the way, when was the last hw boxing ppv to sell anything? How many years ago?
It wasn’t promoted? No one knew it was on? I didn’t watch it, I haven’t watched a heavyweight boxing fight in years and I knew it was on. ESPN made big announcements recently that they were getting into promoting big fights in primetime. 2 of those opening fights were the Arreola fight and the Klitschko fight. I do agree that Klitschko’s fight wasn’t promoted like HBO or Showtime would have promoted it, but never the less, it was still promoted and on a very popular free tv channel. I don’t know what you want to call bums, but titties Arreola and Stiverne were both ranked in the top 10. It was for the WBC title. So let’s not down play it and act like they were no namers.
The FOX UFC Dos-Santos-Can I fight did a bigger number than any boxing or mma fight on free tv in over 12 years. It did close to 6 m viewers.
You should be done, I destroyed every lie you posted.
Also, one more thing to point out. Espinoza is not the president, he is the VP and it is not of Showtime, it is of Showtime Sports.
lol at D ^^^^ wtf you are talking about …… bradley vs marquez out sold cain vs dos santos!! the same fight dana sia it was most important ppv… canelo alvarez outsold rousey and was close to jon jones mma top fighter at the moment … not to mention arreola vs stiverne peaked over a million while ufc again did around 650g … when there is no competition between hbo and shotime and one is on it ususally around 1.1 mil .. kovlev adonis stevenson golovkin other great fighters etc some of there fights peaked at 1.4 mil but always over 1.2 mil reserch yourself and that is on a pid subcribtion with less viewers available!! … klithcskos last fight was bought week or so before the fight it was a sour of the moment nocommercials no promotion … how many times fox sports cards not being machida or hendo is always around 700g .. rousey jones cant even get over 400k buys… i bet canelo vs lara and cotto vs martinez will be over 400 .. and if golovkin vs chavez gets done later the yr it will easily be over that as well .. time will tell … but you bring up cain dos santos fox primetime .. i mean you picked a day of history lately ufc numbers dribbling lower and lower
lol at D ^^^^ wtf you are talking about …… bradley vs marquez out sold cain vs dos santos!! the same fight dana sia it was most important ppv… canelo alvarez outsold rousey and was close to jon jones mma top fighter at the moment … not to mention arreola vs stiverne peaked over a million while ufc again did around 650g … when there is no competition between hbo and shotime and one is on it ususally around 1.1 mil .. kovlev adonis stevenson golovkin other great fighters etc some of there fights peaked at 1.4 mil but always over 1.2 mil reserch yourself and that is on a pid subcribtion with less viewers available!! … klithcskos last fight was bought week or so before the fight it was a sour of the moment nocommercials no promotion … how many times fox sports cards not being machida or hendo is always around 700g .. rousey jones cant even get over 400k buys… i bet canelo vs lara and cotto vs martinez will be over 400 .. and if golovkin vs chavez gets done later the yr it will easily be over that as well .. time will tell … but you bring up cain dos santos fox primetime .. i mean you picked a day of history lately ufc numbers dribbling lower and lower
Espinoza was on record saying Mayweather vs Guerrero did over a million ppv buys. Again, if a public official for a publically traded company is caught lying that is a crime. Yes shareholders have access to that info. No I wont go looking for it because I am not an shareholder. That is also while Arum holds off on going on record sometimes when it comes to ppv numbers. Lets see what other bullshit did you serve up. The whole 6 million rating with Cain was the first night, numbers have plummeted since then although 6 million is way to high a number to sustain for anyone. The XFL received 10 million viewers the first night. The Heavyweighs you mentioned are top ten because nearly everyone in that division outside of the Klithcko’s are garbage. Chavez and Martinez both did a whopping 1 ppv during their entire careers. Jones was the B side or co A side for all but his last two fights. Yes Sonnen is a PR A side. Cotto and Canelo are bigger PPV stars than Jones. Canelo is being matched up with solid but non marquee fighters. people literally have no idea who Angulo or Lara are. Put Cotto against Canelo that does 750k ppv’s. canelo vs Martinez does 600 k. Canelo vs Ward does 600k. Canelo vs pac does a million. Cotto vs Marquez does 500k etc. I also want to call you up on your previous lies stating that undercard Boxers get paid less than UFC undercard fighters. When you said that I literally spit out my cherios. Why dont you find out how much Pac’s undercard fighters recently got. It ranges from 40-250,000 dollars! No one even knows who these dudes are. Now look at what undercard guys in the UFC make. Its as low as 8,000 dollars. Khan recentkly made 1.3 million as an undercard guy. Nonito Donaire a freakin flyweight makes over a million a fight. LOL. I’ll see you on the next post.
d- Also for a guy who is rooting for Bellator you sure are hyper sensative when it comes to the UFC.
Dude are you seriously still going on with this? You are dead wrong. The information we are discussing is privy to only Showtime Sports, the fighters, the promoters and the cable company(whom people like Rafael have inside sources to). The ppv buys that Showtime sports have ARE NOT PUBLICLY DISCLOSED!!!!! The shareholders DO NOT have access to that information. You are either too stupid to realize this or you are lying. Either way, you are wrong. I’m sure the SEC is going to jump all over a trivial issue from a small compartment of a massive corporation’s books, which by the way, they can deny and say that they slightly miscalculated and no one would care even if investigated. You act like the corporation is Showtime boxing ppv. It isn’t even close. That is a fraction of a massive corporation. They literally probably generate less than 1% of what Viacom’s total annual revenues generate and that is the entire sports division. Wow! Do you seriously think that shareholders of a massive corporation receive full disclosure of all books within the business? You just proved there is something else you know nothing about. If those stockholders had access to that information, why on Earth would people be relying on a third party analyst like Rafael to disclose that info? It would be posted publicly by someone who studies the business. The access would be public. Hahahaha.
The 6 million number had to due with the fact that unlike boxing, the UFC never has major hw title fights on free network tv. If they did, they would be doing those number consistently. Instead they typically have fighters that the casual fans don’t know or title holders like Demetrious Johnson in the 125lb division that few care about.
The XFL was football and football is 10 times more popular than both boxing and mma. Horrible example.
Yes, I agree heavyweight boxing is garbage outside of Klitschko, but those two were two of the best boxing has, so.
Martinez is also going to fight Cotto for his second ppv fight coming up shortly. So that will make 2. Which is 2 more than Ward, the second best fighter p4p in the world. Haha.
Your opinion of what is an A fighter is not shared with the rest of the world. Chael Sonnen is good at hyping a fight, but without a major title holder like Jones or Silva, he isn’t going to be a big draw. Those guys were the A, unless you are claiming Silva was a B when he fought Sonnen. Jones was only the clear B when he fought Shogun, because Shogun had the title and wasn’t even a big draw, and Jackson, because Jackson for obvious reasons. The rest of them, were more Jones.
Miguel Cotto is a bigger ppv star than Jones? Uh, that is amusing, because he hasn’t been on a ppv in literally 2 years. And when he was, he was almost always the clear B fighter. He also lost a tune up fight about a year and a half ago against Trout and is not as popular as he once was. Canelo has been the A fighter 1x and got a 350k buy ppv. So, how exactly does that make him a bigger star? Just because he was the B against Mayweather that did a massive ppv? Canelo was a big name for a while and they had to scrap a few of his ppvs because they knew it would not generate the buys to break even. You also act like casual fans knew Teixeira or Gustafsson. No one expected those fights to sell big, so the whole Lara/Angulo argument is illogical also. All of your numbers are inflated. Marquez is on his way out, even the roids won’t keep him floating much longer, he is in his 40s and can’t draw a ppv. You also miss something else that is obvious: when showtime or hbo put together one of their massive ppvs involving Pac/Mayweather that go over or come close to a million buys, they invest WAY more money into promotion and the return is far less.
Undercard fighters in major boxing ppvs can literally make as low as 1k. The lowest a fighter today can make in the UFC is 8k and that would be a fighter who lost. The least a fighter who wins can make is 16k. I have seen fighters on the MAIN CARD of a boxing ppv make as low as 2k. Not even prelims, we are talking main card. Let me know when that happens in the UFC. Also, you are wrong about what Pac’s undercard made. That was just the main card, you are ignoring the prelims because you are an idiot. You also are cherry picking stats again using Donaire and Khan- two headliners as standard under card fighters. 90% of the time those guys headline their own fights. The only time they fight on the undercard is on a rare occasion under a Mayweather, etc. big ppv.
This gets more amusing every time you post. Here is what happens: you manufacture absurd statistics and alleged facts in your mind, I prove definitively why you are wrong with sources or hard numbers, then you either just continue to lie, switch the subject or contradict yourself. This is a blood bath.
Fightbusiness for a guy who likes mma you sure are hyper sensitive when it comes to any debate involving the two sports.
Go to the very bottom of this article and you will see what the undercard fighters made (40-250k). Please show me the last time a no name in the UFC made 250k and 85k as we saw in this fight. By the way dont lie and tell me the 250k guy Kalib whatever ihis name is is a star. By the way you dont have to insult people at every turn. It shows how defensive and insecure you are.
http://www.badlefthook.com/2014/4/9/5599704/pacquiao-vs-bradley-ii-purses-manny-guaranteed-20-million-bradley-6
By the way here is an article that shows at the bottom that Louis Collazo made 350k to fight Khan. The public doesnt even know this guy (although he is a rugged fighter). Please show me the last UFC mid tier fighter who made this much. I’ll be waiting
http://www.boxingnews24.com/2014/04/mayweather-to-receive-32-million-guaranteed-purse-maidana-1-5-million/
HAHAHAHA!! You are an idiot!!! Those were the main card fighters.
How much did these guys make:
Sean Monaghan Joe McCreedy
Oscar Valdez Adrian Perez
Esquiva Falcao Ethan Pena
Oleksandr Gvozdyk Mike Montoya
These guys fought on the prelims, they all made significantly less than what the main card fighters made. I wouldn’t be surprised if a few of them made less than 2k.
Here is an example of what I am talking about in terms of undercard fighter’s pay in boxing:
The Martinez-JCC Jr fight’s main card fighter’s, ie, not even the prelims, had a guy by the name of Paul Harness who made only 2k. 2k on a major boxing ppv made only 2k. The lowest paid prelim fighter at that time in the UFC was making 6k to show. Also, there are tons of undercard ufc fighters that make figures in the 85k range. There are also many that make 250k on the undercards with their win or other bonuses. Also, you neglect to acknowledge that Khabib was fighting on a Pacqauio undercard and had he been main eventing a boxing after dark, he would have made significantly less.
I find it funny that you are calling me insecure for insulting you, yet you’ve been dishing it out. It seems like you just can’t take it when someone insults you, especially after they’ve proven you wrong over and over again.
Also, good decision running away from the ppv numbers being public. Haha.
Also, here are some numbers from the Canelo -Lopez prelims:
Sergio Thompson – $10,000
Carlos Claudio – $9,000
Eddie Gomez – $5,000
Quintan Whitaker – $8,000
Andres Gutierrez – $15,000
Carlos Valcarcel – $10,000
Francisco Vargas – $5,000
Damn, look at those payouts!!
How about these figures from another HBO fightcard:
Vanes Martirosyan – $177,500
Erislandy Lara – $202,500
Mikey Garcia $155,000
Jonathan Barros $25,000
Terence Crawford $6,500
Sidney De Siqueira $6,000
Jesus Magdaleno $6,000
Jose Silveira $7,000
Andrew Hernandez $2,500
Rudy Puga $3,500
Jesse Hart $4,000
Joshua Meyers $2,000
Anthony Flores $2,500
Luis Hernandez $2,000
Brett Rather $2,500
Avery Gibson $2,500
Eric Flores $2,500
Daniel Calzada $2,000
Look at all those 2’s. You won’t see those in the UFC. Probably not even Bellator, haha!!!
By the way, Collazo is not a mid tier fighter and he was fighting Khan who is a boxing headliner. You also are missing the point that there is a drastic drop off in co headliners in boxing, to the rest of the card. The majority of the fighters on the boxing card can’t even afford to buy a used car with their purse, the ufc fighters can.
Dear lord those are the first few fights of a fighters career. After fight number 10 Boxers consistantly make over 40k a fight. Also once they begun just good ( Nonito, lara, Guerrero, Berto, Victor Ortiz etc) they all make over 300k a fight. That doesnt happen in the UFC. Thats star money in the UFC. who cares what you make for your first professional fight.
We were discussing undercards. You are attempting to use what main card fighters in boxing make comparatively to what prelim fighters make in the ufc. When you realized you were wrong as a whole, you had to resort to altering your argument. And you are wrong, there are tons of fighters in the ufc, plus a few in Bellator that are undercard fighters making 6 figures per fight: Also, that was not those guys first professional fight. Go do some research.
You are also misinformed about what star money is in the UFC because again you are an idiot that just reads the payout reports of what is disclosed to the athletic commission yet ignore what is part of the ppv cut, promotional pay, and other bonuses. St Pierre was making close to 5m per fight. Silva and Jones were also making a few million.
Literally nearly every statistic and or fact you’ve posted has been either inaccurate or exaggerated to the conversation at hand. This is amusing.
this guy is so wrong with information its sad ^^^^ picking out fights in certain days times is different fighters also you name paul harness but fail mention lee made 50g some fighters are bums boxing dont pay well you cant pick out certain fighters i could do the same LOL how many ufc fighters have complain about how little they get paid ? i was going to compare middle road boxers to top ufc fighters but you could do it yourself …. you are completely wrong on this discussion … now if you want to say prelims fighters make more than some undercard boxing event which wasn’t even televised then go ahead smh .. but if we talking about elite to solid to gatekeepers to ufc elite to middle road gatekeepers than in a consistent basis no way you could tell me that
another thing you keep putting examples of young up comers not even televised fights i mean wtf ? the difference bettween not televised fights to ufc non televised fights are not much diff … and even swing bouts ? wtf point i could say did you see how little weidman made to face silva on ppv main event ? that was embarrassing a mian event ppv against the great silva making that little .. anybody could pick anything in any given night smh this sis ridiculous debate anyways
Its a good thing mmapayout writes articles about boxing because boxings pay is worth talking about…ufc pay is really low…
Haha. Jov, that was my point, I was responding to a guy that was trying to use prelim fighters that are 1 and done in the ufc as the norm. We can both go back and forth cherry picking numbers. But the truth is MOST, not all, undercard fighters get paid more in the UFC as opposed to the major boxing shows. Of course the ppv headliners respectively make more in boxing than they do in mma, they usually make 70-80% of the cut because they co promote.
I am not completely wrong about this discussion, go back and read it. Nearly everything that dummy said was false. Also, I never mentioned anything that wasn’t televised in boxing as an event, whether or not those undercard fighters appeared on the ppv or tv is not even relevant seeing how most fighters on the card do not make it to tv or the ppv airing. You are making things up. You act like the prelim fighters in the ufc make the ppv, they don’t. For years also, they weren’t even aired on tv, this is relatively new.
Most of your second post is incoherent, but talking about what Weidman made in his fight against Silva wasn’t great but it is much more than you think it was. He made 6 figures for the fight and was an unknown to casual fans. His purse and win bonus was only 48k, but he received over 100k just to promote the fight plus he also received additional undisclosed bonuses. Something boxing fans are completely ignorant of because they can’t read is the bonus system in mma pays these guys a lot of money. You guys just read what the UFC is required to release to athletic commissions, which for guys like St Pierre is literally like 5% of their full pay. Many of the headliners(just to be clear, Weidman didn’t start receiving ppv points until his 2nd fight with Silva), receive a cut of the ppv which can range in multiple millions. St Pierre was making around 5 m per fight. Weidman however, only had 9 fights total prior to fighting Silva and was in his first ufc contract still. He was also a backup plan for a fight with Silva, he was not supposed to fight him yet. Evans was, but he lost to little Nog.
Yes, it is ridiculous how little information boxing fanboys comprehend. Not to mention how bizarre it is that boxing fans go on mma websites and attempt to disparage the sport. Strange all the hate, yet how funny that you guys are so drawn here. Haha.
Tops, boxing pay isn’t worth talking about either.
Yes its worth talking about..boxing..fame and fortune combined….ufc only fame…paid chump change hahaha….
Fame and fortune? Haha. For who? The guys who can’t buy clothes with their purse who fight on major ppvs? Hahahaha!!
Menstrual cycles I tell ya…
Yeah, you should tell us about your period.
Bloggers please dont feed the troll. I believe he go goes by the screen name: D. Anybody who laughs at his own commentary by saying haha or LOL after his commentary is obviously batshit crazy. Anyone who obviously has paragraph long responses has way too much time on his hands. Again dont feed the troll which I unfortunately did on this post. By the way for all the MMA fanboys Boxing numbers are also posted on this website which is why we are here.
Don’t feed the troll? Says the guys who trolls mma websites looking for e-fights with mma fans because he is a boxing fanboy. Also, there are a few boxing articles on here, the overwhelming majority are mma related. This is called mmapayout, idiots like you come on here to read the mma numbers and attempt to invalidate the sport, it is very obvious. You just weren’t expecting someone to smack you around like I did.
I guess this is the only hand you can play at this point because I proved you to be dead wrong about every idiotic false statement you made. You may be one of the dumbest people I’ve ever seen on a blog. You actually stated that Boxing ppv buyrates are released publicly without researching it because it is a false claim. Not to mention you decided to just fabricate Jones’s ppv numbers where all you had to do was go to the top of the website and read his numbers. WOW! Not to mention all the other fabricated statistics that you have thrown out there.
By the way, I never used the phrase LOL, you did.
Hey D give us a break here please chill out with the Aderall and coffee you look like an idiot. Besides we all know you are actually Dana
It is pretty clear the one’s who look like the idiots are the ignorant boxing fans who troll mma websites.