Questions regarding Strikeforce’s future continue to be raised as rumors of a possible Heavyweight tournament and weekly TV show continue to be focal talking points for the company. Scott Coker was a part of some pretty insightful interviews released over the weekend, both which he went into great detail addressing numerous topics and criticisms.
HDNet: Fighting Words with Mike Straka – Scott Coker:
Backstage With Scott Coker:
Payout Perspective:
A criticism I hear all the time towards Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker is that he doesn’t go out enough and promote his promotion and brand. Another is the lack of creating centralized goals and milestones for the company and effectively expressing them to the fans. The segments involving Mike Straka and Ariel Helwani were informative and from the feedback I’ve heard, have been well received by the fans.
Some interesting notes from the videos:
– Scott mentions the Shine International deal being a 7 figure deal that provides a good source of revenue from them.
– They hope to enter “Phase 2” of their development plan next year, where they hope an announcement will be made soon.
– A good amount of information regarding Coker’s past, including working in Japan for K-1 and being a producer on ESPN. Really great information here.
– The state of the Japanese fight scene, how he deals with criticism from the UFC, being a big Japanese fight scene fan, etc.
I agree that these were both good. But really the one man who is up to the job of getting into Cokers back ground and the dealings with Japan is Schavello. I eagerly await a “The Voice vs Scott Coker” piece some day.
In the Helwani one he says there will absoluty be PPV in 2011. I haven’t heard him be that forth right about it. In the past it has always been “ya we would like to “or “maybe”.
jv:
– I agree, a “The Voice vs Scott Coker” would be great.
– I believe part of the PPV will be these HW’s fighting, like I’ve mentioned before. =)
The only thing that makes any interview with Coker interesting is waiting for the multiple train wrecks. He comes across as he really doesn’t care or have a passion for his product. He gets walked over by his fighters more than that woman down the street married to the drunk.
Agree Rich. I dont even want to hear from Coke at this point. He can say what he wants to do all he wants. He cant get it done and has no authority. Lets put together Fedor vs Overeem. Lets ge tthe OK from Fedor, then Overeem, then M1, then Showtime, maybe CBS, and im sure Coke has to answer to his backers. All of this for 1 fight. Keep in Mind Overeem can choose fighting over seas at any time.
Just like the Tournament with the Middle Weights. He cant make it happen. He give away control of his product. There are states that sanction anything. He has no trouble finding states with no PE testing policy. But cant find one to allow multi fights a night. There are lots of small promotions who seem to do it. Blaming it on the commission is the easy way out rather than admit he has no control and can not get it done after claiming he would.
Keep in mind guys that at the end of the day this is a business. Coker may not be in full control of his product (Showtime) but he knows how to turn a profit and that’s saying a lot for the business of MMA. Many Orgs have come and gone in the last few years but SF remains strong. Coker, like any good CEO says what he needs he needs to in order to get the press to keep his product in the news.
These were interesting interviews, it’s always good to hear more about what goes on behind the scenes and what the future plans are in any MMA organization. People who already have their minds made up about Coker & Co. will find that reflected in these interviews, the rest of us can find both good and bad in them.
Good: the fact that Coker has a long term plan for SF and things are running on or ahead of schedule.
Bad: he wouldn’t cop to the fact that it is a bad idea not to do a more even job of promoting BOTH fighters in his main events.
Rich, I didn’t see the multiple train wrecks.
BS, if you don’t want to hear from Coker don’t listen to the interviews.
Diego
Dont worry, i didnt.
Everyone keeps saying Coke has make SF profitbale. Where is the proof of that. They dont release their financial info. You people swallow his propaganda and dont even question it. They make very little money, have lots of expenses, and have multiple partners that no one knows exact what they get in return. The are a decent fight company with a very shaky foundation. Their Shine deal couldnt be very lucrative and im sure every time Fedor fights they lose a fortune. Also im sure Dream, M1, or one of the many other groups get a cut of each event. There is not much meat left on the bone.
You’re right that we don’t have proof of their profitability, but we also don’t have proof of any lack thereof. And you’re wrong that “[us] people” don’t question Coker. Most people on this site question what he says, but since we don’t have all the facts, we can only question so much and then most of us take a “wait and see” approach. You’re the only person posts here who thinks he knows everything about Strikeforce.
When discussing his business, I haven’t yet seen Coker get caught in any lies. Until he does, I will take what he says with a grain of salt, but assume that it’s mostly true.
“They make very little money, have lots of expenses…”
How do you know that they make very little money? Where is the proof of that?
“Their Shine deal couldnt be very lucrative and im sure every time Fedor fights they lose a fortune….There is not much meat left on the bone.”
Again, how do you know that? I’m supposed to take your word over Coker’s?
Not to drag this out too much further, but when SF agrees to fork over half the profits every time Fedor fights, well you get the idea.
I’m not sure a 50/50 split was the deal. And I know Showtime and CBS put in some money as well in order to get the Fedor deal done.
When talking about Fedor fighting in Strikeforce and co-promoting, we have to take into account that it only applies to 1/10th of SF shows they put on each year.
Diego
“How do you know that they make very little money? Where is the proof of that?”
I think it is kind of obvious since Coke has ben trying to make everyone believe they are profitable for a long time. Affliction lost a lot of public support when everyone realized their debt. He wants to avoid that by sugar coating the debt and claiming profits before there really is any. That is just my opinion. But there is enough info out there to suggest the profits are not there. Many of their deals are released to the public, their gate is released to the public, fighter pay is released to the public. We know about what networks are paying for their content.
Also he claims to be profitable because of the Shine deal. Well how would he know? They just started. Wouldn’t you need to know the success of future events to know if you were going to be profitable? That was the last quote i remember from Coker is Shine will allow them to stay in the black for years to come. This to me , shows he is just trying to rally the troops so to speak to get the media and the public focusing on the future not their demise which haunts promotions/companies when trying to expand. But what if their events tank one after another? Is Shine paying them enough to eat millions on each event? I don’t think so. So why is he passing a prediction off as fact?
Brain,
You responded to my post, but you didn’t actually present any facts whatsoever. As usual, you are passing off your opinion as fact. Based on their gates, what we know (or think we know) they are getting from Showtime and CBS and their disclosed fighter salaries they are in the black.
Now, disclosed salaries are most likely not their full payments to fighters, and we don’t always know what split they get of the gate receipts, but on the other hand, they have the Shine deal and sponsorship deals to add to the mix. I’m not sure what numbers you’re looking at, if you would like to post them I’d like to take a look myself, but my back on the envelope calculations suggest that they are turning a profit on virtually every show.
And what do you mean that he is passing prediction as fact when it comes to Shine? He knows how much money he is getting from them, and he know his own cost structure. It’s pretty easy to determine if the deal puts you in the black or not. Your accusations are baseless and senseless.
Passing my opinion off as fact? Any post i make is my opinion. Sorry if you take everything written on the net as fact. Also way to ignore all the ‘IMO” in my post.
I disagree with them making profit each event. They dont release their numbers for each event opting to go to commissions where they can hide them. But Diaz Noons 2 only generated 300K above reported fighter pay. Do you really think the 300K covered production costs. How much you think it cost to advertise the event? That is not cheap. Maybe a couple hundred grand. Then you have Arena rental which isnt cheap. Then you must account for SF having a corperate office where they have many people they much pay in addition to the half dozen people who seem to have power over the company. I am also assuming Showtime picks up the production costs of the tv broadcast. Because that is what killed Elite XC and caused them to lose over a million per show.
Now i wont even get into the contenders shows which make almost nothing and have the same expenses.
Coke, IMO, is following the rules he is supposed to follow than everyone else has followed. When you are struggling financially you claim things are better than they really are(remember the 100K PPVs claimed the day after Affliction and the many more events they promised?) and when you make a lot of money you down play your success to keep people from calling you greedy and wanting a piece of the pie.
Brain,
1) Showtime covers the production costs, hence why they have a lot of say in the production. =)
2) Strikeforce gets a really nice licensing fee per event from Showtime. They received a “$700,000 “Broadcast, Television, or Motion Picture” rights fee from the Strikeforce Miami event as proof, as per the FSAC.
3) Arena rental? They own the HP Pavilion, so every show they host there doesn’t have that.
4) Strikeforce corporate office? They have about 15 people that work for Strikeforce. I think they hired 1 or 2 more to accommodate more shows. =)
It seems you may have EliteXC and Affliction stuck on your mind.
1. I mentioned Showtime covering production costs. However there are costs to produce an event thats are not part of the broadcast that are part of running an event.
2. 700K is decent but this was one of SF best events. Are all their bigger events getting the same? Is 700K enough? I doubt they get anywhere close to that for Challenger Events. So at best they make a little (very little) on a couple events a year then lose some on the smaller events.
3. Not all events are at HP.
4. 15 employees with many in positions of power which has plagued SF in the past. They are not cheap. Also thats a lot of annual Salary nto to mention other expenses that come with having employees. 15+ employees dont sounds like much, but it is when they are barley in the black if in fact they are. I see no proof that SF is making good profit. If in fact they are breaking even or in that range thats not good. That is not a secure business. Which is my point. Coke thinks just because he is in the black even by the thinnest of margins that it is proof of their longevity and stability. I do agree it buys them more time than losing money but you cannot survive if after a few years in your are barley keeping your head above water.
I do not have affliction and Elite stuck on my mind. But i am aware of their struggles and learn from them. I followed them very closely during their existence. SF is facing many of the same problems. Being aware of such allows me not to be mislead into a promotions presidents propaganda and turned into a mouth piece for a flawed promotion. There have been many people in the past like yourself who were infatuated with a upstart promotion for whatever reason and sung their praise with little objectivity/ The IFL for example. Fans touted them, sherdog promoted them, and in the end the IFL ran a piss poor promotion with dead end gimmicks and on their way out stole millions of dollars from MMA fans through their stocks. Many of those victims fell for the hype false created on MAM sites by people with an agenda.
Back to the point. I believe SF is wanting to rush a PPV soley because they are npt making much money anf their know at their current rate they will not survive. They need PPV and they are going to risk everything in 2011 but because of any plan but because they have to. Then when that fails we will see how stable SF really is IMO.
Brain,
1. Those are minor expenses, the actual production costs that Showtime takes care of is what is expensive.
2. The calculated average was that they get around 500-700K for a big showtime show, 200-300k for a challengers show, and six figures + for a CBS show.
3. A good amount of events, including their biggest shows are at the HP Pavilion, which allows them to save. Coker also previously mentioned that other venues, like the Scottrade Center, are under an umbrella that helps them save a good amount of money.
4. Strikeforce focuses on getting a lot done with very few talented people. If anything, they are way understaffed for what they have done the past year. Compared to EliteXC, IFL, etc, they have a much smaller staff. They are comparable to the UFC staff, where they depend on a small amount of people to get a lot of work done, and not the other way around.
The UFC, IFL, Bellator, Affliction, etc all were in debt after their first few years of operation, and is the norm and what you can expect from a start-up. They have to really turn it around by the 3rd year and at least try to break even to keep on going.
Here is the thing, Strikeforce wasn’t a start-up when they got into the game. They’ve been running combat sport events for many years before they held their first MMA event, which broke the record for most paid attendance back in 2006, a pretty remarkable feat considering that MMA has seen a big boom since and the record is still holding up in the US, has been broken in Canada since.
I agree that PPV could be a bad sign, but most don’t even remember that SF has already held a PPV event, a co-promotion with EliteXC a few years back and the sales weren’t great. All they’ve done since is take over the Showtime/CBS deal and become the #2 MMA promotion in the world.
I guess my point is that SF is not EliteXC or Affliction, so it’s hard to make blanket statements that they are facing the same issues as those companies, because the variables are a lot different.
Falling for hype is exactly what were not about. The vast majority folks associated with MMA all say that SF is operating in a healthy manner, where that wasn’t the case for EliteXC and Affliction. The issue with SF is not making money, it has been other things like match-making, lack of fights for fighters, lack of promotion, lack of information reaching fans, etc.
The only way they would be in trouble is if Showtime/CBS give up on MMA and didn’t resign SF in 2012, which some of the UFC folks I know have expressed to me before. Until then, saying that they are losing money or are about to go under is a bit pre-mature IMO.
If you look at Snowdens piece he states that it costs Showtime ~$30,000 to do the production at a Challengers show and the about the same for Strikeforce. The big shows aren’t going to cost Showtime much more as the production is going to be basically the same. Strikeforce will have higher bills for the big shows as they have more press and the weigh in’s to deal with.
But it is interesting that some of the Challengers shows get sold as site fees ala Bellator.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/12/24/1875620/bloody-elbow-exclusive-unprecedented-access-backstage-at-strikeforce