Jonathon Snowden of Heavy.com has done a piece with Bjorn Rebney that looks at some of the differences between MMA and boxing in terms of business, demographic, and the overall nature of both sports:
Like Gary Shaw and others around the country, Rebney is a boxing guy newly converted to MMA. There is an important distinction. As he name dropped Georges St. Pierre and Shinya Aoki, it was obvious that Rebney is a fan of mixed martial arts, not just a savvy business man looking for the next opportunity. But that doesn’t mean Rebney isn’t looking into his personal crystal ball at the future of both sports. And with MMA, he likes what he sees. Zuffa’s recent sale of ten percent of their company for an estimated $100-150 million is a sign Rebney recognizes as MMA’s ascendancy. “There’s a better chance I could grow a second head than a boxing company could show that kind of growth or have that valuation,” Rebney said. It’s more than the UFC’s rapid rise that Rebney sees as an indicator of MMA’s advantage over boxing. Boxing he says, attracts an older and poorer audience. MMA fans are relatively wealthy and college educated. “It’s a monster demographic. There’s not much of a comparison.”
Boxing fans have also been trained to view their sport differently than MMA fans. In boxing, fighters are expected to rack up tens of wins before they ever face a serious challenge. A boxer that is 20-5 is probably an also-ran. In MMA, a fighter with a similar record is a superstar. MMA fans are more comfortable with loss, allowing Rebney to let his fighters fly free, taking on even serious challengers, in the 10 months between Bellator shows.
“Fighters don’t want to sit on the sideline and collect dust. We were able to keep our fighters active,” Rebney said. “We worked with a promotion in Japan to get Eddie (Alvarez) a fight, a fight that almost gave me a heart attack watching it on HDNet… this promotion is based on our belief that the best should fight the best. There are risks and rewards. Conundrum is the perfect word for it. What if Eddie fights in a super fight and loses? It happens in MMA, that’s one of the magic things about the sport. In boxing there is this false sense that everyone needs to have a record of 22-0. In MMA, guys like Toby Imada have an upside down record but are hugely talented. MMA fans in general are not as concerned about a guy losing a tough fight.”
Payout Perspective:
Rebney makes some interesting points, but the one that stands out most to me is the comparison of fighter records between both sports. It’s something that I – and I’m sure others – encounter on almost a daily basis when explaining parts of the sport to newcomers:
Randy Couture 17-10 vs. Mark Coleman 16-9 — How could either possibly be legends in the sport?
For years, fans have been trained by boxing’s tin can system that a fighter isn’t legitimate until he’s at least 15-0. If he’s got more than a few losses, he’s more or less irrelevant. In fact, that’s still one of the knocks on Manny Pacquiao today; it doesn’t matter how good Manny is now, it almost matters more that he lost 2-3 times earlier in his career.
MMA is different: ask anyone in the UFC’s middleweight division if it matters that Anderson Silva got caught by a heel hook six years ago; or that Georges St-Pierre has two losses on his record; or that BJ Penn has five losses over the span of his career. In MMA you’re only as good as your last fight.
It’s a small, yet important distinction: the sport cannot generate new fans unless those people actually commit to watching the fights. Thus, the sport has to work at removing some of the stereotypes that would impede curious on-lookers from doing so: blood lust, savagery, talentless bar fighters, and records not fit for an elite fighter are just a few of them.
Note: The entire article is worth a read. Rebney goes on to discuss various aspects of the lessons he was able to learn through his time in boxing: casino site fees, sales pitches to sponsor execs, the importance of television, etc.
Boxing fans are poorer yet the sport has mostly been on premium cable and PPV the last 20 years, guys talking out of his ass. Just look at how much Boxing fans pay for the biggest fights at the gate, MMA doesn’t even do 1/3 of the biggest boxing gates yet boxing fans are poor.
Jake
You need to look at the entire picture here buddy. Yes boxing has some large gates on their biggest cards. But those 15K people are mostly casual fans and celebs looking for the “popular” place to be for the night. Those are not representative of the majority of boxings fanbase. As for the PPVs being bought. Well yes boxing does sell PPVs for $50+. But you need to realize that boxing only has 2-3 decent PPVs a year that get big PPV buys. The UFC runs 15-20 PPVs a year.
This guys has spent years in boxing and his current job demands he know the demo he is catering to. Its silly to assume he doesnt have studies and pretty solid info to bakc up his claims.
This stuff has been common knowledge to most people for years. Even the education gap between the two. 90% of boxing claim boxing has kept them out of prision and got them off the streets. That is a rare statement in MMA. NOt that its a bad thing that boxing helped these fighters. But you can clearly see the diffence in class of athlete and that funnels down to the fans who follow these guys.
MMApayout has posted articles about MMAs demographic. The studies show exactly what you see at a UFC event. Young, White, decently wealthy, and educated. The UFC and MMA isnt the sport of the projects, the ghetto, the trailer parks. The lower income segments of society for the most part still prefer boxing.
BTWm he said boxing fans as a whole are Poorer compared to MMA. Not that they cant pay for a PPV.
That’s bullshit, Young White and Wealthy my ass. I live and work in Vegas and there is much more money flowing when boxing comes to town then UFC/MMA. There have been articles that MMA brings in lower class people into the city that they spend less, that crap about boxers getting kept out of prison or dying by boxing is true a lot of the time but it’s a lame ass line Dana White used to try to elevate his fighters.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/05/sports/sp-boxing5
Everything in the article is spot on but before I completely dismiss his assertion on MMA’s demographics compared to boxing I would like to see the studies.
For one, boxing has a huge fan base that I imagine crosses many educational and economic classes. Yes, MMA has way more significant PPV events that do relatively well for the young sport but I’m just not sure if his claim concerning the demographics are conclusive.
Brian Smasher, I would like to see the evidence. After all many people use statistical data to project an image they want to sell.
Delving a little deeper into the MMA/Boxing economics, why are boxing purses so huge? I do not follow boxing, so forgive my ignorance, but isn’t it acurrate to say that the top boxers can earn 10 million a fight? I don’t think the top MMA guys earn anywhere near that amount.
If so, why? Are boxing fans wealthier or the sport of boxing more rewarding to their fighers than MMA is? Not trolling here, I just want to know….
I tend to agree with Jake, boxing fans are not poorer by any stretch. This idea is far fetched and based on no actual fact. If you look at MMA, the newer fans are all mostly the younger demographic that carried over from wrestling. Us old timers might have some money but we most likely enjoy boxing as well, where boxing has a larger fan base in the older demos.
Maybe he meant to say that “boxers” are poorer when they start off? Most boxers come from the streets I suppose.
Naw I know some boxing fans are poor and mma fans to but the hispanics would rather watch boxing over mma cuase they don’t like the restling/grappling part and all my black friends hate mma they love boxing and u know what there all gang members now all my white friend love mma way more than boxing wev always watched boxing until pride fc came out then the ufc but we were never wrestling fan the wrestling fans have came to mma cuase of lesnar
■JasperPants
Look at the boxing and MMA as a profit sharing business compared to a lessor business that doesnt share. Which is the better company. Company A that does 1 billion in revenue but the president only gets 10 million. Or Company B who does half the business but he president keeps twice as much? Boxers get paid so much because they dont have to spread the money around. The other fighters on a Big PPV card get pea nuts. They dont spend money on anyones fights but their own which is why there are only 5 boxers anyone cares about.
To protect the sport and its future you have to have a regulatory body to advertise all events not just 3 fights per year. A body to fight legaliztaion something a individual fighter wouldnt have reason or the resources to do. A body that forces the fights fans want to see while boxers duck and dodge each other. This body in MMA is Zuffa/UFC. Boxing doesnt have a comparable oganization its individual fighters all looking out for themselves and the 5 who have fame take everything and leave nothing for the others. But a body like Zuffa takes money. There are the employees of the company, legal battles, year around promotion of events and fighters, and higher pay for lower level fighters. This keeps guys from making 10 million in MMA and instead a more reasonable 1-2 million.
Jake
“That’s bullshit, Young White and Wealthy my ass. I live and work in Vegas and there is much more money flowing when boxing comes to town then UFC/MMA.”
LOL. Hate to break it to you. But the Vegas strip isnt a accurate indicator of the rest of the country. He never said every boxing fan is a bum. There are many rich boxing fans. But for every rich white guys in Vegas who attends the big fight. There are a million ghetto boys who couldnt afford to go or a million mexicans, etc.
Brian Smasher, hey thanks, that makes a lot of sense.