Showtime’s Stephen Espinoza has announced that it will withhold upcoming PPV buy rates due to the controversy surrounding the Floyd Mayweather-Marcos Maidana PPV. Espinoza told BoxingScene.com that the buy rates will only be released if the event sets a PPV record.
The Mayweather-Maidana PPV reportedly received 900,000 PPV buys although ESPN’s Dan Rafael reported it sold between 800K-900K PPV buys. It should be noted that Espinoza and Rafael have had twitter beef in the past but that does not necessarily mean that Rafael’s report is off.
Espinoza explained his rationale in saying that the PPV buy rate speculation seemed to become “bigger than the event itself.” Basically, Espinoza believes withholding the numbers would reduce misrepresentations about the PPV performance and that certain figures would indicate some sort of failure for the event.
At a time when boxing is starting to feel the PPV strain, it’s an interesting move on the part of Showtime.
Payout Perspective:
Imagine the outrage if Dana White were to tell media that they would not release PPV buy rates or even talk about that speculation. What do you think of the move by Showtime? Does it stop talk about PPV buys? While the move helps control the message, it also doesn’t end speculation. Certainly, not releasing information allows the blanket “you’re wrong” when it comes to any reports of PPV buys. Yet, this tact seems like the company is hiding something as well.
“Imagine the outrage if Dana White were to tell media that they would not release PPV buy rates”
Newsflash… Zuffa has ONLY released one official PPV buyrate in the history of the UFC. That was UFC 100.
Weird.
Haha. Yeah, Espinoza is hiding something….. declining buy rates.
Newsflash Topps/Sampson……HBO/Showtime boxing almost NEVER releases the official ppv buyrates. They throw out bullshit numbers all the time. Then Rafael exposes their lies.
@PinkPig – Dana does comment on what is being reported and it does not sound like Espinoza will be doing that.
Pink pig are you the master trool Sampson?
Espinoza didn’t say he wouldn’t comment on the buys. He stated that Showtime won’t be releasing them unless they broke a record.
This is exactly what pink pig Dana has done. He has never released any PPV numbers other than the inflated UFC 100 number. He comments on them though.
Jason, please do everyone a favor here and ban this guy’s ip.
Thats right dw dont release officiall ppv numbers…only wrestling work at home journalist releases the ufc ppv rumors hahahaha
Ahahahahahaha… D = Douchebag so mad he wants someone banned. Ahahahahahaha
Gotten to
Tops/Sampson, you do realize everyone who sees your posts are under the impression you have some form of retardation, right?
The UFC is one of the most inflexible companies when it comes to making anything transparent or public. They even go to great lengths to lobby the government for more secrecy bills. I think it is an unfair comparison, but I don’t like Showtime’s stance on this either. Also, when has the UFC even released official PPV numbers? plus they only speculate on them if they think it’s favourable to them.
Dana White: WE ARE A F****** PRIVATE COMPANY M%&”%**** GO $%$%&*&#!!! WE F******* ##$$#%# 1 GAZILLION BUYS A %%&$%& MINUTE!
Yeah, that’s professional.
Logical, you say the ufc doesn’t release ppv numbers, which is true. But releasing ppv numbers that are lies like Showtime/GB, Top Rank/HBO do is much worse.
This is really bad. I hate Donna White but have to admit if Donna did this I would be all over him. It seems Money’s numbers have dropped howver I honestly base these weak numbers on shitty opponents. put that dude in with Pac or GGG and it would do over 1.5 million easy.Also remember the last UFC had 3 stars and only did 500k. 800 k against a shitty oponent aint bad. Terrible move by Showtime though.
Fightbusiness with more of his nonsense.
Mayweather vs. Ortiz……..1.25m buys
Ortiz was not a big named opponent.
The last UFC did not have 3 stars. They had 2 and neither were fighting an opponent that is a ppv draw.
The entire ppv industry is down.
This is total bullshit on Showtimes part. A bunch of girls fighting over Floyd. IM getting sick of Floyd anyhow, not releasing numbers is just bad for biz and shows a weekness in the ability of a promotion being honest with fans, other fighters and with themselves. Certain numbers will leak out anyhow, seriously what promotion Boxing or MMA actually give out real numbers anyhow they all fucking lie.
Hbo is a publicly listed company it cannot make up numbers like the rumor meltzer does hahaha….yeah d is getting desperate wants to ban people telling the truth the ship is sinking hahaha
Topps stick to what you are good at, spouting out incoherence that no one can comprehend.
HBO does not release official numbers for ppvs. The promoters are typically the one’s releasing the figures, which are then subject to scrutiny by independent researchers of ppv buys, because the promoters usually lie about the numbers. Espinoza was one of the few boxing execs(not exec of the company) that would state numbers publicly, but they were lies in 2 out of the 3 he released, so they were not official.
The latter part of your statement is your strength seeing how you are a mutant. Go back to your nonsense. Don’t attempt to be taken seriously.
Hahaha…espinoza is employed by a company like showtime meltzer the rumor ppv ufc numbers is a freelance works at home with wrestling masks…if espinoza lies there would be repercussions from the company specially if its listed publicly…..but if meltzer lies with ppv number than he is not answerable to anybody…..hahaha…
Cant believe the ufc universe is dependent on meltzer numbers….hahaha…how gullible
Again, stick with your anti social rants. When you attempt to analyze anything involving these subjects you expose your mental deficiency.
Dave Meltzer doesn’t analyze boxing ppvs typically. Dan Rafael does and he has called Espinoza and Schaefer out on them publicly. If your analysis was correct, then all Schaefer or Espinoza would have to do is disclose the official figures with some type of documentation publicly and the case would be closed. They don’t do that. He just makes a public statement fabricating the numbers. If those numbers were public, they wouldn’t be having that discussion.
You like mixing apples with oranges. What you said about Meltzer/Espinoza would be the same as suggesting that Rafael/D. White do the same things. You are comparing buy rate analysts to executives and owners of their given fight companies.
You are a mutation.
The problem I see is top boxers are just fads. There are a few guys who being in non fans because they think everybody is watching. Showtime is trying to hide the fact that it’s not the cool thing In town anymore. They see the PPV decline and do t want major media picking up on it and running it into the ground scaring off all the mainstream non fight fans.
Aeast the UFC has a right to not reveal numbers and have been consistent. Boxing had no problem with the numbers when it was in their favor. Now they hide them when things don’t look good and think people are to stupid to figure it out. Boxing fans probably are to stupid. But not everyone is.
Im talking about accountability between two sources of ppv…espinoza and meltzer…you claimed espinoza is lying …i say if he lying is he is liable with the company and if the company is publicly listed its liable to shareholders and the sec…
Meltzer on the other hand if he lies he has no one to answer to..
No accountability…
“Cant believe the ufc universe is dependent on meltzer numbers….hahaha…how gullible”
We’re not gullible. We all realize that those numbers are rough estimates. But it’s the best info we have so we go with it, while keeping in mind that they are not exact. I don’t think anyone on this site believes that Meltzer is 100% accurate. Just that his number are the most accurate.
Tops – do you have a better source? If so please share.
tops, again, stick with acting like a retard.
Showtime is not a publicly traded company. Viacom is. Showtime does not have shareholders. Viacom does. Espinoza may be liable, I’m not certain if the FCC would go so far as to investigate something like that. For him to claim the number of buys being off by a little more than 100k, I find it difficult to believe that would be the crime of the century. Either way, he did in fact lie. Rafael adamantly stands by his source which makes sense because everyone knew these two events did very poor comparatively to Mayweather’s past ppvs. Seeing how Rafael has no investment in how many buys Mayweather’s fights did, it is pretty apparent, he is telling the truth. Also, if Espinoza was telling the truth, why did he not release the numbers with some sort of documentation? This would all have been put to rest if they did.
Espinoza can lie all he would like and did.
Also, what is really amusing is you made a bit of an oops here. You are claiming that Rafael is a credible source of information and Meltzer is not, yet you believe Rafael’s numbers are false. Hahaha!! Idiot!
Funny how two Mayweather fights ago he generated 4X tthe revenue that the highest UFC PPV did ever!
🙂
Yeah and 2 out of his last 3 were his lowest buy rates since 2006.
Also, your math is off on how much that event did relative to ufc 100.
So the UFC doesn’t release official ppv number and now show time wont unless it breaks a record. Sounds to me that we are all still playing in the same sand box of estimates, guesses and approximations. Its all basically bullshit because we dont have any over head costs, so any number that sounds good could in fact be a loss no matter who is fighting. Being a promoter is one of the riskiest businesses. They are all full of shit at the end of the day.
sal, I agree 100%. I’m so distrustful of promoters that when Arum said that the Cotto-Martinez fight didn’t do well and he barely made any money I just assumed he was saying it so he could try to stiff Cotto and Martinez. So even when they downplay their PPVs I don’t trust them.
Excerpts from an article good read….not a long essay from d hahaha
HBO is a publicly held company. What does that mean? It means anyone can buy a piece or share of HBO stock. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of Time Warner Entertainment Company, L.P. A publicly held company is governed by the rules and regulations of the federal agency of the U.S. Securities Exchange Commission (SEC). It holds the primary responsibility for enforcing the federal securities laws and regulating the securities industry, stock and options exchanges, and electronic securities markets in the U.S.
The Securities Act of 1933 requires uniform disclosure of information about public securities offerings at the federal level. For more information about the SEC: Link
In short, under the rules and regulations of the SEC, HBO cannot engage in fraudulent announcement and manipulation of the performance of their business.
Golden Boy Promotions and Top Rank Promotions are privately held company. These companies are not beholden to the rules and regulations of the SEC. While companies who sell ownership shares to the public cannot hype, inflate, and manufacture their performance numbers, it is different for privately owned companies.
When HBO performs well in their boxing PPV event, an HBO official will have announced their PPV takes through the biggest sporting news media, ESPN. Mark Taffet or former HBO employee Ross Greenburg are usually the two that will attach their name to a PPV performance release. The article is usually written by ESPN boxing writer Dan Rafael, not some internet boxing sites of blogs. Anything that these boxing sites or blogs release are secondary information that they have picked up from news outlets such as ESPN or Yahoo! Sports.
My favorite line is not some internet boxing sites or blogs hahaha…how bout work at home with wrestling masks journo hahaha….match with dana whites reaction to the rumor of the said wrestling journo hahaha
Despite what D thinks or assumes, I despise Arum, I would love to see that pos broke with a boot kicked in his face lol. The boxing business is one of the dirtiest ones around that is legal. The UFC was a breath of fresh air when it stated to get big and then quickly turned into another house of scumbags. Once money becomes harder to earn and things dont go their way as easy, they all end up turning for the worst. However people forget that the promoters take all the risk and usually put up all the money.
I wouldn’t say that promoters take “all the risk”… Financially yes but not All The Risk
UFC 100 = $5 million gate
Mayweather-Alvarez = $20 million gate
4X for the tiny brains
“Excerpts from an article good read….not a long essay from d hahaha
HBO is a publicly held company. What does that mean? It means anyone can buy a piece or share of HBO stock. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of Time Warner Entertainment Company, L.P. A publicly held company is governed by the rules and regulations of the federal agency of the U.S. Securities Exchange Commission (SEC). It holds the primary responsibility for enforcing the federal securities laws and regulating the securities industry, stock and options exchanges, and electronic securities markets in the U.S.
The Securities Act of 1933 requires uniform disclosure of information about public securities offerings at the federal level. For more information about the SEC: Link
In short, under the rules and regulations of the SEC, HBO cannot engage in fraudulent announcement and manipulation of the performance of their business.
Golden Boy Promotions and Top Rank Promotions are privately held company. These companies are not beholden to the rules and regulations of the SEC. While companies who sell ownership shares to the public cannot hype, inflate, and manufacture their performance numbers, it is different for privately owned companies.
When HBO performs well in their boxing PPV event, an HBO official will have announced their PPV takes through the biggest sporting news media, ESPN. Mark Taffet or former HBO employee Ross Greenburg are usually the two that will attach their name to a PPV performance release. The article is usually written by ESPN boxing writer Dan Rafael, not some internet boxing sites of blogs. Anything that these boxing sites or blogs release are secondary information that they have picked up from news outlets such as ESPN or Yahoo! Sports.”
You fucking idiot. When did I mention anything about HBO not being publicly owned?
So, yeah, HBO execs will state numbers publicly only when they hit a ppv home run. The rest of the time, they will allow the promoter to bullshit and lie all over the place. Don’t you remember Richard Schaefer calling Arum out on his bullshit?
Showtime is a bit different. Espinoza did publicly lie 2x and was called out on it. If his statements were true, why don’t they just disclose the actual numbers and put the issue to rest? Because he knows he was completely full of shit. Rafael has direct ties to sources within the cable ppv industry, he does not get his information from Taffet or any exec at HBO or Showtime.
You are a colossal moron.
tops, my favorite line from you was when you announced to the world that you were a functioning retard.
Topps/Sampson/Pink Pig,
“Funny how two Mayweather fights ago he generated 4X tthe revenue that the highest UFC PPV did ever!”
Your evidence to back up your claim:
“UFC 100 = $5 million gate
Mayweather-Alvarez = $20 million gate
4X for the tiny brains”
I know you are a mutation that is slow, but when dealing with ppv fights, the ppv revenue which is the overwhelming majority of the revenue generated should be calculated.
UFC 100 PPV buys…..1.6 m
Mayweather-Canelo…..2.2m, even with the difference in price, and the difference in sponsorship,etc. that makes this probably somewhere around 2x as much from UFC 100. Thus proving your math is not smarter than a 5th grader, or probably a 1st grader for that matter.
1.6 PPV buys at $45 = $72 million
2.2 M PPV buys at $75 = $165 million
2.3X the amount of PPV revenue.
4X the amount of gate revenue.
Man…UFCaca gets DOMINATED all day by boxing.
HAHAHAHA!!!
Cherry pick much?
1.6m buys at $50
2.2m ppv buys at $70
The price of ufc 100 was $45 for SD and $55 for HD …………………..80 million
The price of gayweather-canelo was $$65 for SD and $75 for HD………154 million
Leonard Ellerbe even admitted that the average buy price was right around $70 because the split between the two for HD/SD was about even.
1.93x the ppv revenue
Just based off of ppv plus gate:
Gayweather-Canelo……..174 million
UFC 100……………………….85 million
Conclusions, topps/sampson/pink pig smells like shit and is a retarddddddd.
Oh and they had the biggest fight they ever did last year, shattering every ppv record and the ufc still kicked their ass in ppv revenue for 2013.
Eat your turds.
Did I mention that in order for UFCaca to do any revenue, they had to put themselves in a $500 million HOLE. I will howl when they have to payback the loan 10 months from now.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Noticeably, the math didn’t add up for moron Topps/Sampson/PPig, so he had to change the discussion.
Hey, something else you didn’t mention was the fact that the Mayweather event cost 10’s of millions in production dollars, while UFC 100 probably didn’t break 10 million.
D we have no idea what production costs were for either event so stfu! For all we know a few of the casinos could have flipped a large part for Boxing. They could of for ufc also but I doubt as much. Borrowing half a billion is not anything any of the boxing promoters have done as far as we know, so it raises a serious question that non of us can answer so dont try to because you dont fucking know! 500 mil is a huge nut thats not easy to deal with no matter who you are. Most boxing promotions do every big show as a single venture, they put in and then they take out, there are always co promotions on a lot of the big ones. You are trying to split hairs with the number available its laughable.
Sal, according to many boxing insiders that promotion cost tens of millions. Of course I don’t know the exact figure, but that makes perfect sense.
How much could the UFC promotion have cost? Where is the overhead? It cost no where near what GB/Gayweather put into that fight.
Boxing promoters can’t borrow 500million because they don’t have the credit too. Haha.
The only thing laughable is how gay you are on Arum and the rest of boxing.
You don’t know shit and what is funny is you think you do. You spew out such bullshit it is laughable.
Filed SEC
PART I
Item 1. Business.
CBS Corporation (together with its consolidated subsidiaries unless the context otherwise requires, the “Company” or “CBS Corp.”) is a mass media company with operations in the following segments:
•
ENTERTAINMENT: The Entertainment segment is composed of the CBS® Television Network; CBS Television Studios; CBS Studios International; CBS Television Distribution; CBS Films®; and CBS Interactive.
•
CABLE NETWORKS: The Cable Networks segment is composed of Showtime® Networks, the Company’s premium subscription program services; CBS Sports Network™, the Company’s cable network devoted to college athletics; and Smithsonian Networks™, a venture between Showtime Networks and Smithsonian Institution, which operates Smithsonian Channel™, a basic cable program service.
Those don’t look like buy rates to me. Haha. Let me know when you can acquire those, seeing how according to you the numbers are public.
CBS Corp was formed from the split of Viacom. Showtime falls under CBS Corp.
Haha. Topps probably spent all night researching that irrelevant piece. He’s a sinking ship!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Filed with the SEC by cbs corp…which includes sho…..hahahaha…
Feels good that ppv buys of boxing announced by officials of hbo and sho has accountability in it…
Responsible and official
Yup therefore it is under sec…and it also cannot manipulate its numbers…you said in your post a while ago it is not publicly listed…well its is being a subsidiary of cbs
Na, not official. No hard figures. No public numbers. When you can produce those- which you can’t. Let me know.
Sinking ship!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/sports/wrestling-reporter-dave-meltzer-tries-to-keep-it-real.html?pagewanted=all
Check out the source of UFC ppv buys hahahaha
You got hbo and sho big corporations publicly listed..under the sec…vs a home based no regulation,not answerable to his ppv rumors hahaha
Boxing hasnt asked a five year retired fighter to fight the current champ. Immediately! Out of desperation…so who’s ship is sinking hahaha
Picture of the article is very impressive hahahahaha
HBO? Showtime?? HAHAHAHA!!! Dan Rafael doesn’t work for those guys!! No public figures!!!!!!!!!! Sinking Ship!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mcgregor to fight right away hahahaha….i feel bad for other fighters in the roster low pay and they dont fight often hahaha..dw is desperate…hyping mcgregor need to pay loan due….
No official figures Topps=sinking ship!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
D, what are you referring to as a sinking ship?
Its funny that D gets over emotional and screams that the UFC has been dominating the ppv market, when in reality they haven’t.
Of course the UFC will get more ppvs a year when they put on 13 ppvs compared to boxings 4, but now that boxing will have at least 9 this year, it makes it more comparable.
So with boxing having 9 ppvs this year compared to the UFCs 13, whats your excuse for the UFC getting demolished D?
The Gayest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!