UFC 164: Payout Perspective

September 2, 2013

Welcome to another edition of Payout Perspective.  This time we go to the Bradley Center in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and take a look at UFC 164 where the lightweight title changed hands.

Stain remains for Bendo as Showtime subs Henderson

In a sudden, decisive and anti-climactic way, Benson Henderson’s title reign ended Saturday as Anthony Pettis made Bendo submit to an armbar in the first round.  Henderson, a newly minted jiu jitsu black belt appeared to use a technique known as the “can opener” while in Pettis’ guard (a move used by GSP as well) to improve position and open guard. The problem is that the technique is susceptible to an armbar.

Pettis wins the lightweight title and might have a shot at Jose Aldo in his next fight dependent on the status of his knee.  A bad spot for Henderson here.  With the decisive loss, Henderson will have to wait for Pettis to lose the title and/or win a couple fights in a row in decisive fashion.  For a guy that defended the belt three times and having to had defend it a fourth time in Pettis’ hometown, and then told he wouldn’t get a rematch, it has to be deflating.


War Master KOs Mir

Both guys have reasons to hate them.  In this battle, Barnett was able to land a knee which took Mir down.  While the stoppage may have been premature, Mir did not look like someone that could have made a comeback.  It will be interesting to see where the UFC puts Barnett next.  He could be a contender, but he did just fight a past his prime Mir. As some have suggested, a Mir-Overeem matchup seems just right for so many reasons.

Mendes takes care of The Carpenter

Chad Mendes solidified his position as next in line for the Featherweight title as he knocked out Clay Guida.  Prior to the stoppage, Guida had never been stopped in his career.

Its his fourth straight stoppage since being stopped himself by Jose Aldo in January 2012.  Depending on whether Aldo fights Pettis, Mendes should get the next shot at Aldo.  If not, Ricardo Lamas or Cub Swanson seem ready for him.

Rothwell stops The Truth

Ben Rothwell decided to do a “Clay Guida” like impression in the final round of his fight with Brandon Vera and overwhelmed Vera causing him to cover himself waiting for the ref to stop the fight.  Rothwell used his post-Octagon interview time to thank the fans and then call out Travis Browne.  For the second straight fight, Vera was in a position where he waited for the ref stoppage (Shogun Rua stopped Vera last August in similar fashion).

Attendance, Gate and Bonuses

As we reported earlier, attendance was 9,178 for a gate of $907,116.  It was decisively better for a previous visit to the Bradley Center for a UFC on Versus 5 card.

Bonuses of $50K each were given to Anthony Pettis (Sub), Chad Mendes (KO) and Hyung Gim Lin and Pascal Krauss (FOTN).  Arguably, Lin could have been a double recipient for KO.  Magnus Cedenblad could have had the Sub of the Night as well for his quick work on the prelim card.

UFC Countdown

The Countdown show featured The Showtime Kick…of course.  Aside from hearing about the history of the fight that shut down the WEC, the feature on Josh Barnett and Frank Mir was excellent.  It reminded people that both these guys held the UFC title at one point.


The Octagon sponsors included TapouT, UltimatePoker.net, Dodge, MetroPCS, MusclePharm, the latest video game from Assassin’s Creed, Harley Davidson and Bud Light in the center.  The Discovery Channel’s Ahmish Mafia also sponsored the PPV which I do not quite understand.

UFC 164 was sponsored/presented by Harley Davidson which presented its Hometown Throwdown promotion for the 110th Anniversary of the company.  It had a special “110” logo on the Octagon mat to commemorate the occasion. Also, Harley Davidsons graced the stage during the weigh-ins and Arianny and Brittany wore the branded colors of Harley Davidson. There were also Harley Davidson events which included UFC fighters doing autograph signings as part of the brand activation.

Pettis’ sponsors included Hayabusa, Headrush, Corn Nuts and Toyo Tires.  Henderson was sponsored by Dethrone which also came out with Dethrone “toothpicks”. Phoenix International Speedway, Musclepharm and Training Mask were the ex-champs other sponsors.  FighterxFashion has Henderson’s fight shorts here which depicts the fact he now has a jiu jitsu black belt.

Hayabusa had a cadre of fighters wearing its shorts including Pettis.

Frank Mir was sponsored by the UFC and also wore out the UFC sponsored Monster Headphones to the ring.  He also had big logos for Midway, which appears to be some sort of exercise equipment.

Best walkout shirt of the night was Josh Barnett’s which was drawn by Kiyoshi Nakazawa.

Post-UFC 164 Headlines

Who is next for Pettis?  It was made clear that Benson Henderson would not get a rematch.  It appears that Pettis may want to go after Jose Aldo which begs the questions of whether the UFC wants a “superfight” between two of its division champions which it could market and sell for the possibility of a high PPV number.  Or, does the UFC make Pettis defend against TJ Grant.  While he’s earned the shot, Grant is not really known and would not elevate Pettis in terms of PPV star.  While Pettis is not a PPV draw yet, he has the entertaining style, good looks and great backstory to be a guy people would want to follow (one might recall his “World of Jenks” episode) He is a marketable fighter and one would think the UFC needs to capitalize on this.

Truth departure likely delayed.  The UFC has been kind to Brandon Vera.  He was cut but that was rescinded when it was discovered that Thiago Silva tested positive for a banned substance.  The announcement that the UFC wants to head to the Philippines in 2014 means that Vera is likely to stay in the UFC to help promote the visit as well as fight.  Aside from this, there is no reason why Vera should stay.

Odds and Ends

-Since its debut on FS1, it appears that the UFC is putting up Vegas Odds in the introductory fighter graphic.  An interesting move.  Does this encourage people to gamble?

-Pettis’ chain he wore post-fight was a nice touch.

-Somewhere Brian Stann was likely smiling.  Vera had called out Brian Stann for questioning Phil Davis’ win over Lyoto Machida.

-Sure Barnett has had a checkered past, but how can you not like a guy that almost suplexed Joe Rogan in his post-Octagon interview.

-Doesn’t Tim Elliott look like the WWE’s Daniel Bryan?

-Dethrone trotted out Benson Henderson toothpicks (via FighterxFashion) so you too can learn this disgusting habit.



It was an entertaining card which had a very intriguing rematch in the main event.  But was that enough?  The start of college football season and the three day weekend may contribute to a lower PPV buy rate.  In addition, the lack of a true PPV star will limit the amount of buys.  One might expect around 300,000 buys for this event.

17 Responses to “UFC 164: Payout Perspective”

  1. Tops of on September 2nd, 2013 9:10 PM
  2. BrainSmasher on September 2nd, 2013 11:43 PM

    That isn’t marketing hahaha. That’s called hyping and there is nothing wrong with it. The reason they “hype” wrestling creds is because wrestling has always been in mess of organization. No one watches wrestling and knows the details about it. There is to many tournaments that’s fans don’t understand the significants of. The UFC has dozens of very high level wrestlers and there is no way to get across how good these guys are. Saying Vera finished 6th in this tournament and Chael finished 4th in this one and Couture 2nd in this one. Not to mention the different styles each person is in. Unless you live and breath amateur wrestling that shit doesn’t mean anything. The fans don’t know if 2nd or 6th in this tournament is good or bad. There isn’t a rankings of all wrestlers to know how good they are. After college there is only a couple wrestlers who will have any meaningful creds people understand. But it doesn’t mean everyone else sucks. But how do you get across how good the guys were? You cant. You just have to lump them in with the guys above them. People only understand All American and Olympian. Outside of that people cant understand the difference between the 10th best guy or the 100th best guy. Its just easier to explain how good a guy is by putting him in a class with Olympians than to try to explain the details of why Vera’s creds are still good even though he didn’t make the Olympics. If you are All American level then I consider you one of the best in the world. I don’t care if they call you an Olympian or not.

  3. aintitthetruth on September 3rd, 2013 1:25 AM

    Reminds of the people who are described as “nobel peace price nominees” such as the former leader of the crips street gang. its more like a state of mind because anyone can nominate anyone.just like anyone can declare themselves an olympic candidate.

  4. aintiitthetruth on September 3rd, 2013 1:36 AM

    Lol, bs and his nationalist drivel. “If your all american you are among t he best in the world.” All americans are a dime a dozen. since it stretches from d1 all the way down to juco. even national champ isn’t particilarly impressive when you see how hey do in the olympics, or don’t even make it. Being an all russian or russian champion is more impressive than being all american or national champ. http://www.databaseolympics.com/sport/sportpage.htm?sp=WRE of course its a bit murky considering the ussr isn’t around anymore. but the russians have garnered a ton of medals in a relatively short time

  5. aintitthetruth on September 3rd, 2013 5:39 AM

    How ethnocentric of bs to say that someone who is at all american level, and not even neccesarily all american, is among the best in the world. of course the best wrestling nations (iran,russia/ussr) train their guys in freestyle/greco while the ncaa just has folkstyle and most of those (askren placed 5th in olympics) don’t even sniff a medal. i mean lindland got eliminated the first round of the ncaa tourney yet got a silver in greco so miraclea do happen. coleman was national champ and didn’t medal. couture was a legit all american and didn’t even make it to.the olympics. http://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/article/2012-11-15/olympic-redshirts-gain-mat-maturity

  6. Diego on September 3rd, 2013 7:17 AM

    A good night of fights.

    I continue to be baffled by Clay Guida’s boxercise routine in the cage. Just because it works for Dominick Cruz doesn’t mean it will work for everyone.

    Barnett did a good job of making his fight with Mir a test of chins. Barnett can take a lot of punishment, while Mir has a tendency to crumble. It stated out fairly even with both guys landing hard shots in the clinch but eventually Mir began to crumble. Good return to the UFC for Barnett. He was beaten by Cormier and I think he would get the same treatment from Velasquez, but he’s always interesting. It’s good to see him back in the top league, where he belongs.

    I’m not a big fan of Henderson and I think he’s been treated exceptionally well by the judges in the past, so it was good to see the belt change hands.

    300k PPV buys feels right for this one. It was a solid card but didn’t have a big name.

  7. BrainSmasher on September 3rd, 2013 2:32 PM

    What is your point? So you are telling me some are better at Free style and some are better at Folk style. Not shit Sherlock. Who is to say which style is better or more important. Many of the Greco guys left Folkstyle or freestyle because they couldn’t hack it. But because the Olympics supports Greco we are supposed to put them on the level of the guys who are better they tried to avoid competing with? Of course not. That’s I each style should be judges by itself. IF you are good in either style then you are one of the best wrestlers in the world. Period.

    I think it is funny so many people listen to the announces to begin with. I learn to block them out long ago. Back in the day they were in the role of being teacher of MMA. They had to dumb everything down and explain step by step what was going on so new fans can learn the game. But it was frustrating to hardcare fans who knew what was going on and trained in the sport. Rogan and Goldberg’s job has always been to hype the product and educate the fans. It amazes me how many people cry about what those guys say because are clueless what their job is.

    I like that they exaggerate and hype fighters. Because then when fans start spouting it back verbatim it tells me how big a noob they are. Just because Rogan or Mike says it doesn’t mean it is true an dit doesn’t mean you have to complain about it. You should expect it and know it is their job. Do you really think Leonard Garcia has huge power like the announcers say 1000 times every time he fought in the UFC? He threw punches with all his might from his ass and only had like 2 KO’s verses weak chin guys to show for it in like 20 fights. Fans need to educate themselves and learn the fight game and its history and not rely on announcers.

    I dotn care what Vera’s wrestling creds are. I don’t care if he made Alander Karalin (sp) his bitch in the Olympics. In MMA his wrestling sucks ass and always has. In fact there isn’t any point in his fight career where he looks to have even a high school level of wrestling. So where they over hype his creds, under hype his creds, or tell you the truth. None of it matters because you should already know none of those creds have helped him at any point in his career.

  8. aintitthetruth on September 3rd, 2013 3:10 PM

    The point is america/ufc would have more oylmpic champions instead of these “olympic candidates” if colleges had the international styles. and people wonder why wrestling is failing. cuz the usa isn’t leading the way.

  9. aintitthetruth on September 3rd, 2013 3:22 PM

    How can you be the best in the world at folkstyle? its not even contested at the world championships http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FILA_Wrestling_World_Championships and what do you know. usa is bringing up the rear in medal count. bs is a moron.

  10. BrainSmasher on September 3rd, 2013 9:24 PM

    So the College system should adopt the system of the Olympics that is failing and is being kicked out of the Olympics? LOL Right! If no one else is doing Folkstyle then it is pretty easy for college wrestlers to be the best in the world at in like I said. Right?

    American wrestling has shown to be more effective in MMA thus far. SO why should it change? To save a less effective style you admit we aren’t as good at? Pointless. Whether the US changes styles or not. Wrestling in the Olympics and every where else will never be greatly successful. The only measure of success can be participation. Because it will never be a financial success because it is horrible to watch.

  11. aintitthetruth on September 3rd, 2013 10:31 PM


    greco is is generally regarded as the best style of wrestling for mma. everyone was shocked that gsp was hitting td after td on d1 champ koscheck. he got that good training with the canadian national team. Then we got jake rosholt. supposed to be one of the greatest college wrestlers ever… and he washes out of the ufc. oh, did i mention folkstyle is an offshoot of carny wrestling? Real dignified.

    D1 champs and all americans are a dime a dozen.

  12. BrainSmasher on September 4th, 2013 12:56 AM

    free style and folk have the same roots clown. GSP wasn’t training Greco if that is what you are trying to say. Also his taking down of Koscheck has less to do with any of his training but more so his athletic ability. He was using good mma wrestling long before trained with them.

    Also Greco isn’t even close to the best style of wrestling. For 1 there isn’t a best style. There is what style is best for a curtain fighters skill set and abilities. I have seen many Greco guys and Judo guys get killed because they don’t have the ability to slip punches effectively. Then it is a nightmare getting side of the strikes to get a clinch. Couture had a boxing background and was always good at slipping punches and getting inside. Not all wrestlers can do that. If they can they are better off shooting under the strikes. Granted in recent years the art of the shot is lost in MMA due to people learning to use the cage. But they are still dropping down for the legs more often than not rather than using any Greco type trips or throws. Most Greco guys are to flat footed to ever consistently get inside of strikes vs a decent striker. They would need to have a great chin to have any success. Like always they would have styles they do well vs and styles they struggle with. However free style or folk takedowns vs a striker always throw their base off. They can never plant their and commit to a strike. They also end up having to keep their hands low which open themselves up to strikes. This is why you see knock outs like Randleman vs Cro Cop. IF you are agile and have good striking skills and some speed to work with. I do think Greco would be a better style for you to add. But very few people fit that bill.

  13. aintitthetruth on September 4th, 2013 6:12 AM

    Folkstyle is more similar to carny wrestling in that you get points for control and aren’t rewarding extra for sending someone flying. Joe warren didn’t get killed! He hit the ground running. SUCKA!

  14. aintitthetruth on September 4th, 2013 6:15 AM

    Yeah and its illegal to trip in greco… not sure when tripping would happen. guys sneak knee bumps in tho.

  15. Tops of on September 4th, 2013 5:31 PM

    Hahaha…on your earlier post b.s. it is marketing when you hype something to gain profit….if its not true….it’s false marketing…….they are selling the brand UFC to the public…they are selling the promotion thru merchandise ,ticket sales ,ppv…….

  16. BrainSmasher on September 5th, 2013 7:36 PM


  17. LeonThePro on October 3rd, 2013 4:36 AM

    Finally got those numbers in and 164 was 270k buys. Not great but not awful in 100s.

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