Comments on: Rashad Evans and the Business of MMA http://mmapayout.com/2009/10/rashad-evans-and-the-business-of-mma/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 03:34:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Pip Noggin http://mmapayout.com/2009/10/rashad-evans-and-the-business-of-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-200 Pip Noggin Wed, 28 Oct 2009 07:01:54 +0000 http://mmapayout.com/?p=5984#comment-200 Number crunching (almost) alone points out a fathomable reason for Rashad to sign with Thiago over Randy. Rashad is (according to UFC) 18-1-1 (sherdog.com has him at 13-1-1), either way, 1 loss, by way of Machida KO. Thiago is 14-1, 1 loss, by way of Machida KO. Machida (officially) is the current 205 champ. Randy is 16-10, 45 years old. Age is less of a factor when it comes to Couture, regardless, still a factor. He is 13-7 in UFC since his debut in 1997. That is a little under a 50% win ratio. Not very good when considering his standing as a top contender in UFC, even in MMA in general. Evans vs Silva could, very reasonably, see the winner getting a shot at the winner of Machida vs Rua 2. Evans vs Couture, not a chance in hell. Machida got his shot with a win over Silva (with a bit of help from a Rampage win and a Rampage injury) either way, his shot came right after his win over Silva, which by default puts Silva somewhere on the top contender board. Rashad is coming off of a championship fight with Machida. Rashad is obviously still right near the top of the contender board. Thus, a title shot coming out of this fight is not unreasonable. Again, Evans vs Couture producing a title shot. Not a chance in hell. As stated in an earlier comment, Evans' win over Liddell did not help his popularity at all. Why would a win over Couture be any different? The only difference would be that his Liddell win got him a title shot. A win over Liddell now wouldn't even get him a title shot and Liddell's win ratio is obviously way better then Couture's. Beating Randy now would not have the same positive effect it would have 4 or 5 years ago. Legend or not. Liddell already picked that apple when it was still good. Case and point, fighting Silva is a great move for Evans if he is looking for another title shot. It even comes with extras: possibly avenging Jardine's loss, possibly adding his name to Silva's very small loss column (as opposed to Coutures extensive one). Evans vs Silva is by no means main event material but it does stand a very good chance of producing a championship contender in the 205 lb divison. It doesn't come down to who Rashad thinks he can or cannot win against, it comes down to if he wins, which win would get him a title shot faster. Number crunching (almost) alone points out a fathomable reason for Rashad to sign with Thiago over Randy. Rashad is (according to UFC) 18-1-1 (sherdog.com has him at 13-1-1), either way, 1 loss, by way of Machida KO. Thiago is 14-1, 1 loss, by way of Machida KO. Machida (officially) is the current 205 champ. Randy is 16-10, 45 years old. Age is less of a factor when it comes to Couture, regardless, still a factor. He is 13-7 in UFC since his debut in 1997. That is a little under a 50% win ratio. Not very good when considering his standing as a top contender in UFC, even in MMA in general. Evans vs Silva could, very reasonably, see the winner getting a shot at the winner of Machida vs Rua 2. Evans vs Couture, not a chance in hell.

Machida got his shot with a win over Silva (with a bit of help from a Rampage win and a Rampage injury) either way, his shot came right after his win over Silva, which by default puts Silva somewhere on the top contender board. Rashad is coming off of a championship fight with Machida. Rashad is obviously still right near the top of the contender board. Thus, a title shot coming out of this fight is not unreasonable. Again, Evans vs Couture producing a title shot. Not a chance in hell. As stated in an earlier comment, Evans’ win over Liddell did not help his popularity at all. Why would a win over Couture be any different? The only difference would be that his Liddell win got him a title shot. A win over Liddell now wouldn’t even get him a title shot and Liddell’s win ratio is obviously way better then Couture’s. Beating Randy now would not have the same positive effect it would have 4 or 5 years ago. Legend or not. Liddell already picked that apple when it was still good.

Case and point, fighting Silva is a great move for Evans if he is looking for another title shot. It even comes with extras: possibly avenging Jardine’s loss, possibly adding his name to Silva’s very small loss column (as opposed to Coutures extensive one). Evans vs Silva is by no means main event material but it does stand a very good chance of producing a championship contender in the 205 lb divison. It doesn’t come down to who Rashad thinks he can or cannot win against, it comes down to if he wins, which win would get him a title shot faster.

]]> By: Kevin Wiley http://mmapayout.com/2009/10/rashad-evans-and-the-business-of-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-199 Kevin Wiley Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:50:16 +0000 http://mmapayout.com/?p=5984#comment-199 I have another theory as to why Rashad turned down Coutture in favor of Silva. Unfortunately Rashad has been a "Heel" excuse my use of a wrestling term. Since his original stint on the Ultimate Fighter, that tide is currently turning for him as he is showing quite well as a coach on TUF. Fighting Couture is a no win situation as far as help Rashad grow in his popularity. If he beats Couture many will not like him the same way he didn't gain in popularity after the huge knock out of Liddell. Silva on the other hand would probably benefit Eashad it developing a larger fan base. Just my 2 cents for what it is worth. I have another theory as to why Rashad turned down Coutture in favor of Silva.

Unfortunately Rashad has been a “Heel” excuse my use of a wrestling term. Since his original stint on the Ultimate Fighter, that tide is currently turning for him as he is showing quite well as a coach on TUF.

Fighting Couture is a no win situation as far as help Rashad grow in his popularity. If he beats Couture many will not like him the same way he didn’t gain in popularity after the huge knock out of Liddell. Silva on the other hand would probably benefit Eashad it developing a larger fan base.

Just my 2 cents for what it is worth.

]]> By: Derek Stewart http://mmapayout.com/2009/10/rashad-evans-and-the-business-of-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-198 Derek Stewart Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:10:21 +0000 http://mmapayout.com/?p=5984#comment-198 @David. A lot of comments is not necessarily a good thing. You should be looking at the quality of comments and hoping to generate opinions that demonstrate a minimum level of intelligence. Barry Franklin's ignorance of Couture's contract extension is not only embarrassing to himself, but the status of MMAPayout. Like it or not, your readers are a reflection of you. Because he spouted off without even a simple Google search, Mr. Franklin should be banned immediately for wasting our time. Oh, and crun, you don't need all the capital letters to make your point. @David. A lot of comments is not necessarily a good thing. You should be looking at the quality of comments and hoping to generate opinions that demonstrate a minimum level of intelligence.

Barry Franklin’s ignorance of Couture’s contract extension is not only embarrassing to himself, but the status of MMAPayout. Like it or not, your readers are a reflection of you. Because he spouted off without even a simple Google search, Mr. Franklin should be banned immediately for wasting our time. Oh, and crun, you don’t need all the capital letters to make your point.

]]> By: Brain Smasher http://mmapayout.com/2009/10/rashad-evans-and-the-business-of-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-197 Brain Smasher Sun, 11 Oct 2009 22:30:07 +0000 http://mmapayout.com/?p=5984#comment-197 People seem to forget that Evans was already training for a striker. It is just a smart move to replace the striker with another. More when you are at currently the most highly regarded gym when it comes to game planning and training for a specific style opponent. Evans already put in the training for a striker and it would be wasted to when he would have to change to a complete wrestling based training in a short amount of time. Hoping that time would be enough to not have regrets if for some reason he lost. Skill match up wise both Randy and Silva have holes for Evans to exploit. So its best to take the style you already planned on facing. People seem to forget that Evans was already training for a striker. It is just a smart move to replace the striker with another. More when you are at currently the most highly regarded gym when it comes to game planning and training for a specific style opponent. Evans already put in the training for a striker and it would be wasted to when he would have to change to a complete wrestling based training in a short amount of time. Hoping that time would be enough to not have regrets if for some reason he lost.

Skill match up wise both Randy and Silva have holes for Evans to exploit. So its best to take the style you already planned on facing.

]]> By: David Wolf http://mmapayout.com/2009/10/rashad-evans-and-the-business-of-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-196 David Wolf Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:09:44 +0000 http://mmapayout.com/?p=5984#comment-196 As always, I appreciate all the comments, even the ones implying I'm more fan than journalist. I'm thrilled that the article has sparked such a level of debate and interest. Totally unexpected from my end. I still believe the only good business reason for rejecting the fight is if Rashad believed he had a good chance of losing to Randy in December (again for whatever reason). As always, I appreciate all the comments, even the ones implying I’m more fan than journalist.

I’m thrilled that the article has sparked such a level of debate and interest. Totally unexpected from my end.

I still believe the only good business reason for rejecting the fight is if Rashad believed he had a good chance of losing to Randy in December (again for whatever reason).

]]> By: crun http://mmapayout.com/2009/10/rashad-evans-and-the-business-of-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-195 crun Sun, 11 Oct 2009 06:19:54 +0000 http://mmapayout.com/?p=5984#comment-195 If any of these points have been made already - i apologize in advance b/c i feel the need to reinstate them once again. Although i think David Wolf makes a decent argument for why Rashad's decline to fight Couture was a bad for "business" and maybe for his career in the long run, I KNOW it's a good move to take on Silva as far as challenging himself to prove again (or for the first time to others) that he is a top 205 fighter. Regardless of the fact that it's good career-wise to have a Couture win under your belt - when all is said and done, do you all really think that COUTURE IS MORE OF A CHALLENGE THAN THIAGO SILVA AT THIS VERY MOMENT IN THE 205 DIVISION? If so, then I believe you need to get back in your time machine and head back one or two years. YES, Randy Couture is still a great competitor even in his age blah blah; it's amazing he can still hang with anyone he fights... But can he beat any modern day top contenders? No. And regardless of what the answer to that same question may be for Thiago Silva as of now, we have to see Silva LOSE OTHER THAN WHEN HE FOUGHT MACHIDA AND HE IS STILL YOUNG AND NOT ANYWHERE NEAR RETIREMENT. Personally, I'm glad Rashad took this fight b/c it shows that REGARDLESS OF BUSINESS and NOTORIETY and QUICKEST WAY TO A TITLE SHOT- he picked the MORE CHALLENGING FIGHTER AT THE TIME. And that is something I respect greatly in an organization where title shots and match-ups can be extremely subjective and circumstantial. If any of these points have been made already – i apologize in advance b/c i feel the need to reinstate them once again. Although i think David Wolf makes a decent argument for why Rashad’s decline to fight Couture was a bad for “business” and maybe for his career in the long run, I KNOW it’s a good move to take on Silva as far as challenging himself to prove again (or for the first time to others) that he is a top 205 fighter. Regardless of the fact that it’s good career-wise to have a Couture win under your belt – when all is said and done, do you all really think that COUTURE IS MORE OF A CHALLENGE THAN THIAGO SILVA AT THIS VERY MOMENT IN THE 205 DIVISION? If so, then I believe you need to get back in your time machine and head back one or two years. YES, Randy Couture is still a great competitor even in his age blah blah; it’s amazing he can still hang with anyone he fights… But can he beat any modern day top contenders? No. And regardless of what the answer to that same question may be for Thiago Silva as of now, we have to see Silva LOSE OTHER THAN WHEN HE FOUGHT MACHIDA AND HE IS STILL YOUNG AND NOT ANYWHERE NEAR RETIREMENT.

Personally, I’m glad Rashad took this fight b/c it shows that REGARDLESS OF BUSINESS and NOTORIETY and QUICKEST WAY TO A TITLE SHOT- he picked the MORE CHALLENGING FIGHTER AT THE TIME. And that is something I respect greatly in an organization where title shots and match-ups can be extremely subjective and circumstantial.

]]> By: Tom http://mmapayout.com/2009/10/rashad-evans-and-the-business-of-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-194 Tom Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:08:39 +0000 http://mmapayout.com/?p=5984#comment-194 Really, I think it all depends where you put Couture. This is the point of argument: Is Couture relevant to current fighters seeking contender status? If he is not, then Couture has become the legend and huge name that can bump up weak cards and drive up PPV buys (or tv viewers) and his usefulness is more valued by the organization than the individual fighters themselves. Ultimately, what David has done is criticize Rashad's strategy. Only Rashad know his reasons, no matter what he says to the press. We can sit back and make it relevant to our reasonings and emotional reactions. "I dont care....You take the fight." Most commenters her have left well reasoned arguments as to Rashad's motivations. Most are plausible. I think the secondary argument here is with Wolf himself. Simply put, I disagree. Reason: I think Couture's stock amounst fighters has gone down. Legend or not. He's 16-10. Legend or not, he's yesterday's news. Really, I think it all depends where you put Couture.

This is the point of argument: Is Couture relevant to current fighters seeking contender status?

If he is not, then Couture has become the legend and huge name that can bump up weak cards and drive up PPV buys (or tv viewers) and his usefulness is more valued by the organization than the individual fighters themselves.

Ultimately, what David has done is criticize Rashad’s strategy.

Only Rashad know his reasons, no matter what he says to the press.

We can sit back and make it relevant to our reasonings and emotional reactions.

“I dont care….You take the fight.”

Most commenters her have left well reasoned arguments as to Rashad’s motivations. Most are plausible.

I think the secondary argument here is with Wolf himself.

Simply put, I disagree.

Reason: I think Couture’s stock amounst fighters has gone down. Legend or not. He’s 16-10. Legend or not, he’s yesterday’s news.

]]> By: Andy http://mmapayout.com/2009/10/rashad-evans-and-the-business-of-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-193 Andy Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:53:04 +0000 http://mmapayout.com/?p=5984#comment-193 He simply didn't think he could beat Couture. He simply didn’t think he could beat Couture.

]]> By: Brain Smasher http://mmapayout.com/2009/10/rashad-evans-and-the-business-of-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-192 Brain Smasher Sat, 10 Oct 2009 03:33:44 +0000 http://mmapayout.com/?p=5984#comment-192 "It’s clear the ufc is just trying to get his contract over with." Barry Franklin The UFC just recently, after his loss to Nog, signed Randy to a multi fight deal. believe 6 fights. So that excuse dont hold water. “It’s clear the ufc is just trying to get his contract over with.”

Barry Franklin

The UFC just recently, after his loss to Nog, signed Randy to a multi fight deal. believe 6 fights. So that excuse dont hold water.

]]> By: barry franklin http://mmapayout.com/2009/10/rashad-evans-and-the-business-of-mma/comment-page-1/#comment-191 barry franklin Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:44:20 +0000 http://mmapayout.com/?p=5984#comment-191 Are you kidding me ? No one wants to see Rashad vs couture. I'm pretty sure no one wants to see couture vs vera or vs anyone else. It's clear the ufc is just trying to get his contract over with. Also, does anyone want to see Tito vs Griffin ? Maybe the casual fan. They need to step up their ppv cards because they are getting pretty bad. Are you kidding me ? No one wants to see Rashad vs couture. I’m pretty sure no one wants to see couture vs vera or vs anyone else. It’s clear the ufc is just trying to get his contract over with. Also, does anyone want to see Tito vs Griffin ? Maybe the casual fan. They need to step up their ppv cards because they are getting pretty bad.

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