Weight Watchers
September 23, 2009
We received an interesting reader e-mail earlier in the week, one worth making public:
I would love to see some analysis from you guys on fighters missing weight. The only time Dana White seems to care is if it’s for a title. Why should Hermes Franca get a pass? In my mind, it is completely unprofessional and I’d go as far as to say disrespectful to the sport to show up 4 lbs overweight the way Franca did. An even worse story is with Floyd Mayweather. The HBO announcers unanimously believe he didn’t even try to make weight. He’s rich, he pays the $600k because he felt it was worth that much for the advantage, and he just didn’t care.
I’d love your opinion on this and I think it’s timely. I don’t think the fine (generally about 10% of the fighter’s pay, depending on the overage) is high enough. The UFC could easily add to the amount prescribed by the athletic commissions. Why not make it so that 75% of the fighter’s pay goes to his opponent? I also feel the offender should forfeit his right for a cut of the PPV bonus. He should still be eligible for fight of the night, submission, or knockout bonuses because of the built-in incentives to make the fight entertaining. There also should be a rule, unwritten or not, that showing up over weight delays your chance at a title for 3 fights (i.e. Thiago Alves). This is an issue, much like steroid use, that I believe Dana needs to take more seriously to grow the sport.
Payout Perspective:
I share the reader’s frustration with weight-cutting issues as they exist particularly in MMA, but as demonstrated by Floyd Mayweather this past weekend, boxing is affected, too.
I believe the ideas expressed in the e-mail are sound, and I’d particularly focus on Dana White’s share of the responsibility in reining in the problem. The e-mail alludes to Thiago Alves, who at least partially earned his shot at the welterweight title by defeating former champion Matt Hughes after having weighed in at 174 lbs. the day before the show, and having appeared to weigh at least 190 pounds — a good weight class above opponent Hughes — by fight time.
I fully support the reader’s suggestion that when a fighter misses weight as egregiously as did Alves, even if he then destroys his opponent, title aspirations should be placed on hold for a while.
In fact, this is precisely why I felt frustration upon hearing Dana declare Vitor Belfort ready for a middleweight title shot after UFC 103: the guy needed four opportunities to make 195; unless Dana wants to walk into another Travis Lutter travesty, perhaps the wiser course is for Belfort to actually demonstrate the ability to make 185 before receiving an opportunity at Anderson.
Although I favor the economic-based incentives to make weight as suggested in the e-mail, I’d actually prefer to see a change from weighing fighters in the day before a fight to a system demanding same-day weigh-ins.
Same-day weigh-ins ideally would deter massive weight-cutting (as opposed to losing weight in the weeks leading up to a fight), but there are legitimate concerns that fighters would take major health risks in massively dehydrating mere hours before a fight, providing a recipe for tragedy. This potential problem could be mitigated somewhat by requiring fighters to be within a certain percentage of fight-weight a week before a fight, and then by having a follow-up weigh-in either the day before or the day of the actual show.
If same-day weigh-ins seem too radical a shift, there are already schemes in place representing a middle ground that are preferable to the typical model. Ohio, for instance, has two sets of weigh-ins: one the day before the show, and one the day of, and fighters cannot gain more than thirteen pounds between weigh-ins.
Here’s the thing, though: you’re unlikely to see a push for change with respect to weight-cutting issues in combat sports unless and until there’s a tragedy or two — that unfortunate lesson derives from neither MMA nor boxing, but from life.
11 Responses to “Weight Watchers”
Got something to say?
I agree that any MMA or boxing event and ACs should heavily fine fighters who miss weight.
I think one of the most underreported MMA events in the last year was the ridiculous fight between Cyborg and Akano. That Cyborg had such a dominant weight advantage over her the fight was scary to watch. If that match would have gone poorly, ie Akano getting severly hurt, I feel that would have widely reported in mainstream media and hurt MMA’s potential growth. Luckily she wasn’t hurt, it just ended up being a gross one-sided match. I was shocked that the AC or Strikeforce didn’t step in and stop the fight.
I dont see what the big deal is with weigth cutting. EVERYONE does it. Its a skill just like everything else the fighters. Do some are faster, stronger, etc than others because they work hard to get that way or are naturally that way. Weight cutters work hard to cut weight. They train specifically to be able to cut. They way they eat. The water they drink. The torture to get the water back out. It all comes down to hard work and dedication to do what it takes to be successful.
When a fighter fails to make weight he should be punished. But the small amount of weight has very little effect on the fight. We see fighters go up in weight all the time and do very well. Of course the skills and match ups come into play. Beign smaller should make you faster and better conditioned.
Commissions have been trying to stop weight cutting for years. It wont happen because they cant do it. NJSAC is trying to do the same thing mentioned in the article with monitoring weight. BUt its to much of a hassle. Guys are all over the world a week out from a fight and you have them all looking for ways to have their weight monitored by someone in NJ. Even giving the week monitoring. You will still have fighters who cut weight. Now they will just be cutting 2 times. 1 cut for the commission 1 week out. Then cutting again the day of the fight. Then fighting dehydrated. Which is how football players all over the country die. performing, training, playing dehydrated.
Its important to have 1 set of rules everyone knows and plays by. There will always be someone better by 1 rules and someone else by another set of rule. No point in changing just because someone can or cant compete under the current rules.
PS. I dont put much weight into Franca missing weight. I feel the UFC knew he was over weight and just wanted him because he was a name that Tyson could beat. One of the few Tyson could beat. He was recently caught for Steroids and im sure they was the reason he was able to stay fit before and without them cant control his weight. I believe the UFC have meet him several times leading up to the fight and knew he was out of shape. He looked to have stretch marks like he had been around 200 lbs for a long time. But they wanted to make an example out of him and build Tyson at the same time.
A Prime Franca loses a decision. A fat out of shape Franca is to slow to punch of slip punches ad gets embarrassed. They used Franca just like they did Trigg. But im sure they knew there was a risk Franca wouldnt make weight. But as we saw the extra weight didnt help him at all. I also believe Alves KOs Hughes everytime they fight. Weight didnt help him either. Hughes dont like to get hit. When he does he shoots from to far away without setting it up. So he got what he had coming to him verses a striker who has good TDs
Vitor made weight. The fact he took a few attempts doesn’t matter, the rules allow for that.
This is a great topic. I agree with the reader in that the whole reason fighters don’t take making weight seriously enough is because the penalty is not steep enough. The UFC should demonstrate leadership on this issue and increase the fines.
Why can’t the fighters just fight at their “walking weight”? I’m not saying eat all you want and don’t train, but fighting at a nice healthy, working out, training hard weight seems to be a simple solution. Would this deplete the lighter weights classes? Would it be a disadvantage for the fighters? Who wins and loses in this scenario?
“Why can’t the fighters just fight at their “walking weight”? I’m not saying eat all you want and don’t train, but fighting at a nice healthy, working out, training hard weight seems to be a simple solution. Would this deplete the lighter weights classes? Would it be a disadvantage for the fighters? Who wins and loses in this scenario?”
Its not that easy. Im sure many fighters would love to do that. 5-10 years ago many fighters did that. But all it takes is a few who cut weight and that has led to the way the sport is. There is no way to stop weight cutting. So you get a few guys who do cut weight and then everyone else is forced to do it to compete. Now everyone does. There is no exception outside of HW’s. When i used to train with Dustin Hazelette when he was new to the sport. He was 160 lbs soaking wet. Now he cuts from 180 to get to 170 and he dont even use size or strength when he fights. Its just part of the game. Whatever muscle he cant get by cutting weight will cut into the advatage of someone who cuts better.
As it is noone is going to quit cutting unless there is a way to make sure noone else is cutting. Some fighters would love not to have to sweat their ass off for hours in a sauna. But they are not going to come into a fight at 170 verses some like GSP who is probley 190 or more. If both cut the difference between a good weight cutter and a poor cutter is just a few pounds. Not that big of a deal.
I agree there should be more penalties for missing weight.
But some of you guys, including the author of this piece, are way off the mark when comes to how to do weigh-ins.
While it’d be nice if fighters didn’t have to cut weight, that ignores the basic truth:
Any sport with weight classes, will have athletes that cut weight to gain an advantage.
There is next to nothing you can do to prevent it. Believe me, they’ve tried.
We’ve seen this in amateur wrestling. They use same-day weigh-ins in a futile attempt to prevent or discourage weight cutting. It does nothing of the sort.
In fact, it only aggravates the situation, makes it worse, and puts combatant safety at risk. Teenager still cut significant amounts of weight for wrestling meets. I’ve heard of teenage wrestlers having to cut over 20 lbs in 1 night.
Keep in mind, these are still kids, not 20-something guys. And they have far less time to recover from the dehydration they just went through. I’m surprised I haven’t heard of a kid dying from this. (This is partly why wrestlers have become so dominant of late in the sport, they’re super conditioned and can cut weight easily. In addition to taking guys down, and preventing TDs.)
We didn’t get get to weigh-ins 1 day before the bout by accident. Any rule set needs to take these things into account.
Fortunately, the Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts does. The full day between weigh ins allows combatants to cut the weight they need to, while allowing enough time to recover and be fully ready for the fight.
It really is the best rule set there is for protecting combatants, while allowing combatants to use the full range of tools they have.
I forgot to mention:
I realize Ohio, NJ or any State Athletic Commission that thinks its being progressive, and helping combatant safety with arbitrary rules to prevent weight cutting. But as I mentioned above, it doesn’t work.
What it is likely to do is drive promoters, like the UFC, away from their state. The UFC event in Ohio needed a special waiver from their dumb rules. Because every welterweight and up worth their salt, cuts more than 13 lbs.
This rightly caused charges of favoritism and so on, and a waiver may not happen again. Its still a dumb rule, and as a result the UFC and others might not come back until it’s changed.
Good post Samsonian.
Ohio tried this during the Gracie Fighting event a few years ago. The UFC made then get their stuff together before coming there. NJSAC s tinkering with the system and the UFC hasnt been and wont be going back to that state for a long time partly because of that.
Same days weight ins like you saud dont work. The close to the time of the fight the less time a guy has to make weight if he miss’ at first. Which means more canceled fights. Most fighters are asked shortly after weigh ins what their weight is and fighter ussually put on 6-8 pounds in the first 2-3 hours after weigh in. How can you prevent that? You cant. Like i said having a second weigh in to monitor weight will only cause the fighter to cut weight a second time.
Vitor only needed 4 tries to make weight because he took off his socks. Then his hat. Then his underwear. Etc.
It wasn’t like he took four trips to the sauna. He was standing right there the whole time.
Vitor has already made 185 two other times. It just showed that that specific day, he didn’t quite get down to the weight he wanted.